Semaphore signal designs

[gantry]

Could anyone please tell me if the NER / LNER ( or any of the British railway companies) had standard designs for their semaphore signal supports. I have observed from many railway photos that supports range from timber poles, squared or rounded, perhaps tapered or not. The steel framework supports do follow a more uniform pattern but they still vary. some are ornamented , others not so
It would seem to me that the construction of a lot of signals were dependent on what materials happened to be available at the particular site.
I would be most interested to hear comments on this.

With Thanks.

gantry

[chaz harrison]

Could anyone please tell me if the NER / LNER ( or any of the British railway companies) had standard designs for their semaphore signal supports. I have observed from many railway photos that supports range from timber poles, squared or rounded, perhaps tapered or not. The steel framework supports do follow a more uniform pattern but they still vary. some are ornamented , others not so
It would seem to me that the construction of a lot of signals were dependent on what materials happened to be available at the particular site.
I would be most interested to hear comments on this.
gantry

The answer to your first question is yes, definitely. As to materials, I don't think the engineers from the S & T dept could just turn up and look round for a convenient pole! If you want info' about the NER's signals there are likely to be several sources. An excellent first port of call for all the LNER pre-grouping companies would be A A Maclean's "Pictorial Record of LNER Constituent Signalling" although it doesn't cover the LNER post grouping. You might not have a copy to hand so order up one from the local library?
Ornamental supports are likely to mark older installations, in more recent times signal posts tended to become more functional - as did so much other technology.
Other forum members might be able to provide you with links to signal stuff on the net.

Hope that is some help.

Chaz

[R. pike]

Have a look through this catalogue..

http://blairsphotos.fotopic.net/c1803901.html

[52D]

Didnt the LNER have the concrete works at Melton Constable the Crewe of the fens for turning out concrete signal poles among other items.

[StevieG]

Perhaps a photo in a previous thread which I started ; -
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2837&hilit=modernisation+scene
might be of minor assistance, featuring two fairly typical GNR structures of their common lattice style, and one more modern, functional, one, presumably of BR (Eastern Region) origin.

[R. pike]

Westinghouse, The Railway Signal Co(RSCo) and Henry Williams(HWD) all made semaphore signals for the LNER and BR(E).

[PinzaC55]

The Ner used proprietary signals manufactured by Stevens, Tyers but mainly McKenzie & Holland. In the North East the LNEr standardised on the welded plate steel brackets later adopted by BR, but they also made brackets from recovered catenary posts from the Shildon - Newport electrified system which was decomissioned in 1935.The 3 armed bracket signal at Falsgrave, Scarborough is, I believe, the last example of these but it is likely to be removed shortly.Note the distinctive "Z" lattice construction

[Bryan]

Didnt the LNER have the concrete works at Melton Constable the Crewe of the fens for turning out concrete signal poles among other items.

Don't know about Melton C but as far as I know the Concrete yard at York did not produce any signal posts.
As far as other companies.
I have a copy of a book called "Southern Nouveau" An Essay In Concrete.
Chris Hawkins & George Reeve
Wild Swan 1987
This describes the output of the Southern Concrete yard at Exmouth Jcn.
They produced everything from Cable markers to Station platforms with a few Telegraph poles as well, but no mention of concrete signal posts.
It may be that the action of the signal arms would probably induce cracking.

[R. pike]

Many hundreds of concrete signals were made... I have one. I can vouch that the short section i have is flippin heavy.

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p49168637.html


How did they move them about? How on earth did they get them from horizontal to vertical without breaking them? I believe a lot were made at Melton Constable. The North Norfolk Railway are doing a fantastic job of restoring the last M&GN concrete signal left in situ at the moment..

[PinzaC55]

I don't know about York making concrete signal posts but there were several in the North East. My local station (Pallion) had one and there was another at Cullercoats.

[gantry]

Many thanks for all replies, direct and indirect. It is such a fundamental and basic function of railway operation and yet for some reason books on signals and signalling seem to be sparse when compared to the scores and scores of tomes covering every other facet of railway engineering. and operation. Chaz mentioned Maclean's " Pictorial Record of LNER Constituent Signalling" and I found that Abebooks and Amazon were offering it under £30. Also spotted an O.S. Nock book at £85 !

My thanks to all again

Gantry

[Bryan]

It is such a fundamental and basic function of railway operation and yet for some reason books on signals and signalling seem to be sparse when compared to the scores and scores of tomes covering every other facet of railway engineering. and operation.

If you think signalling is given short measure try anything about track (except from PWI) or even research allocations of snowploughs.

[chaz harrison]

Many thanks for all replies, direct and indirect. It is such a fundamental and basic function of railway operation and yet for some reason books on signals and signalling seem to be sparse when compared to the scores and scores of tomes covering every other facet of railway engineering. and operation. Chaz mentioned Maclean's " Pictorial Record of LNER Constituent Signalling" and I found that Abebooks and Amazon were offering it under £30. Also spotted an O.S. Nock book at £85 !

Maclean's " Pictorial Record of LNER Constituent Signalling" .......under £30 - seems a fair price to me. I paid £25 (inc P & P) a few years ago. If your main interest is LNER (and if it isn't what are you doing on this forum?!?) then the Maclean will give you as much if not more than the O S Nock.
One of the rarest (and also the best) book on signalling I have seen is the one on LMS signals. Extremely thorough with page after page of drawings and photos. Now that really does go for silly money. I was told that the print run only went to 500.

Chaz

[chaz harrison]

on reflection, gantry, how many layouts have you seen at shows and in mags that have no signals? Why? They are as interesting, and add as much to the scene, as the locomotives.

Chaz

[gantry]

A good comment Chaz : I agree but have to own up to being a long term "offender" myself. I am busy with my 7th. layout and making big efforts this time to include signalling....albeit strictly scenic and non functional although attempting to at least get some of it in the correct location.
I think a possible reason for the absence of , or omission, of signals in many layouts is that they are the first items to get flattened by wayward hands.... same with telegraph poles. but I'm not sure about these at all because they do look odd without wires.
I am probably putting myself in direct line of fire here but if absence of signalling makes a layout look below par so do human figures stationed around strategic points each standing on its own individual plinth. I have seen many otherwise absolute superb layouts rather spoilt by these figures.
Point taken about about book Chaz.

Gantry