Hello, you may have guessed from my user name that I'm a western interloper here. I'm making a layout based on a station on the GWR Oxford-Banbury line immediately post-war. One of the attractions of this was a variety of stock and possibly locos: all western ones look the same so they say
I am aware of various workings potentially involving the NE, Newcastle-Bournemouth and York-Swindon workings and I have good idea from GWR books what the formations of these might be.
What's unclear to me is the extent which NE locos ran southward from Banbury. I believe the night mail service to Swindon was NE powered alternate years, in later years B1s previously Atlantics. To this end, I have acquired a Hornby B1. But what about other trains? I have seen a picture of a B17 Helmingham Hall running north out of Oxford in the late 1940s, with that I suspect is a Bournemouth-Newcastle working, but that's the only reference I have found.
You may have guessed from the question that I'm tempted by the new B17 although I think that has the wrong tender to be the loco above.
Any help or source of reference material would be much appreciated.
Being away from my books there is another possibility, during the war the LNER loaned some 0-6-0 tender engines either J21s or J25s im not sure of the dates these were returned. But if you want to model them your only option is a kit.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
Running a LNER loco on a GWR layout would create a bit of curiosity value, I think you'll find that,the B17 your thinking about would have had a small tender.
I have a video from the late 50s/early 60s showing a K3 pulling into Oxford on a Summer Saturday working.
Interestingly, on that particluar day ex-LMS (Class 5) and ex-SR (unrebuilt WC) locos also worked into Oxford. There can't have been many places in the country where you might have seen locos from all four companies on the one day.
Running a LNER loco on a GWR layout would create a bit of curiosity value, I think you'll find that,the B17 your thinking about would have had a small tender.
manna
I would have thought that the B17s would have run from the GC section, so being likely to be Footballers rather than Sandringhams and with GS rather than GE tenders?
..................standing by to be shot down in flames..................
I've made a small study of the tenders used by B17's, all the Sandringhams had small tenders and all the Footballers had large tenders.......bar one, and that was 'Tottenham Hotspurs'
Now if anyone could find a picture of a Sandringham with a large tender, I would be delighted, I could then renumber my 'Footballer'
Cant help much with the OP but 2847 Helmingham Hall exchanged tenders with 2858 Newcastle United in June 1936. 2858 was renamed the Essex Regiment becoming a B17/3 (small tender) 2847 kept its name and became a B17/4 (large tender).
Manna asside from 2847 you could look at either of the B17/5s after they lost their steamlining (some slight differences).
Thanks for the replys so far. I think if I'm to have a B17 it needs to be a B17/4. The B17/1's I think were all allocated to East Anglia.
Is the only significant difference between the B17/1 and B17/4 the tender? If so is it a case of getting the Hornby one and swapping the tender. Is it a "standard" LNER tender I would need? If so what other models could be donors, a B1 or a D49.
I think at the time of photo in the book I have Helmingham Hall was a Lincoln engine, which did make me wonder what it was doing at Oxford.
I'm guessing your considering using the model of 2800 to convert to 2847 as opposed to the other models as you want the LNER livery for your modeling period.
If so there are a couple of small differences I can think of besides the tender firstly being the westinghouse pump also the B17\1s had the north eastern style smokebox door with the flattened rim, differently shaped lamp bracket and widely spaced hinge straps.
In the late 40s 2847 (renumbered 1647 on 14/1/47) was based at
Sheffield 11/12/44
Colwick 19/1/47
Lincoln 15/12/47
Woodford 1/1/50
Ipswich 9/4/50
I'm sure it wouldn't be a huge job to rework 2800 the tender was a group standard one but even then there were differences between those used for the B1s (don't know about the O1 tenders) so you would have to pick the right one. Alternatively I would expect there will be many different LNER B17/4 "footballers" that will come out in the future from hornby and you could just wait and rename an number one.
Also if you are interested B12s worked into GWR territory during the war volume 7 of Yeadons register of lner locomotives has a photo (pg.66) of 8525 double heading an ambulance train with a Hall class piloting (although the stepped footplate over the cylinder suggests it is actually a Grange).
in addition to the workings already mentioned, you can add the cross-country Ports workings between Newcastle and Swansea, via the GC and Banbury & Oxford.
In regards to services, you can certainly use GWR & LNER coach stock whilst varying your locomotives to suit the area of operations, but am not sure that locomotives worked right through. Looking at GC publications, North Eastern locomotives probably normally worked through to Sheffield Victoria, where they handed over to their Great Central counterparts, and GWR tookover at Banbury/Oxford.
In regards to locomotives, you could certainly use LNER V2 2-6-2 and B1 4-6-0 classes for the express services, with K3 2-6-0s & Thompson L1 2-6-4Ts possibly on a more local services. Where you might want to include an NER locomotive, then the B16 4-6-0 with a cross-country freight working between York and Woodford Halse might be more appropriate.
A pre-war shot but here is a Director on SR stock approaching Banbury and heading onto Oxford: 5437_Banbury_1930s by robertcwp, on Flickr
Trains between the LNER and SR usually changed locos at Oxford I believe, and avoided GWR haulage, which avoided any complications with differing vacuums in the brakes.
mind you the B17's are a bit of a minefield.
