3D printing

[DriverBob]

Was demo-ed on Channel 4 tonight in "Home of the future" - quick google search suggests prices start at £2000.

Can't believe that a group of modellers couldn't get value out of that!

[Manxman1831]

The costings for model development are disgusting when you talk about the big boys, but the homegrown individual can get all sorts done. Consider a well known set of coaches that are retailing for £40 plus and are blatantly wrong. Using the same research materials, and 3-d printing, those same coaches could be produced more accurately and could be sold at closer to the £20 mark, but only for as long as the cost of materials associated with the printing stays at a reasonable level.

The printing procedure does have the advantage that there are no dies to wear out, and that jobs can be changed as quickly as the time taken to change designs on a computer. However, at the rate that technology is constantly, a life of around five years for the present generation of 3-d printing would not be unexpected.

I would not be surprised to see printed parts on mainstream traders stalls within this year, knowing that some of the smaller outfits already carry them.

[Hatfield Shed]

When to jump in is always the question. Looks to me that it would be worth waiting a couple more development cycles for a higher resolution capability and a price in the hundreds of pounds bracket. But quite definitely this is already a real competitor technology to the present range of hobbyist and kit making techniques, and will be ever more so with each development cycle.

[65447]

I'm surprised that you haven't come across the 3D printing threads featuring the work of Bill Bedford...viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5492

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Doesn't Atso use it, too?

[mr B]

give it a couple of years and the price will fall, look how the bubble jet printer price has fallen,

arrrrrr, I hate to think if Union Mills gets one !



mr B

[Bill Bedford]

The costings for model development are disgusting when you talk about the big boys, but the homegrown individual can get all sorts done. Consider a well known set of coaches that are retailing for £40 plus and are blatantly wrong. Using the same research materials, and 3-d printing, those same coaches could be produced more accurately and could be sold at closer to the £20 mark, but only for as long as the cost of materials associated with the printing stays at a reasonable level.

I don't think so. I have 3D printed OO coaches and they will retail at £70-80. The only way that may bring the price down slightly is if the 3D print is good enough to use as a pattern for resin castings.

[2002EarlMarischal]

Having followed mossie's scratchbuilt R1 thread, I was wondering whether Mousa had the facility to scan such a model for 3D printing purposes?

[Bill Bedford]

When to jump in is always the question. Looks to me that it would be worth waiting a couple more development cycles for a higher resolution capability and a price in the hundreds of pounds bracket. But quite definitely this is already a real competitor technology to the present range of hobbyist and kit making techniques, and will be ever more so with each development cycle.

give it a couple of years and the price will fall, look how the bubble jet printer price has fallen,

I'm not sure that either of these scenarios are going to work out, though they are what the media are pushing, but there are a number of problems with this. What pushed the ordinary colour printer market was digital photography. Everyone and their dog knows what a photograph is a and what to do with them, but there just isn't a 3D equivalent. Does anyone really want 3D models of Auntie Flo at their cousin's wedding? and how much room would you need to store them all? There are lots of relatively small markets that could exploit this technology but none of them are likely to be big enough to be able support a mass produced machine. From talking to the reps of the machine manufacturers I get the impression that they seen the market as being for cheap, low resolution machines, which have the 'wow' factor but will never be good enough for the sort of modelling that we expect.

[Bill Bedford]

Having followed mossie's scratchbuilt R1 thread, I was wondering whether Mousa had the facility to scan such a model for 3D printing purposes?

No, and from what I understand of 3D scanning it would be just as quick to draw the loco from scratch.

..and before anyone gets too excited, I have doubts that the likely sales of a R1 would ever make it a viable project.

[Atso]

Ay up!

Doesn't Atso use it, too?

I do indeed BB. From my experience I have to agree with Bill Bedford's view of the current situation. 3D printing has reached the point where low volume manufacturing is possible but it is unlikely, at present, to compete price wise with injection moulding for runs of over a few hundred.

For those tempted by the £2k price tag please remember you'll get what you pay for. Most decent 3D printers would cost at least 5 times this amount and anything less would be unlikely to provide a good enough print for modelling. I would love to see the prediction of a 3D printer on every desk top become a reality. However, not everyone would be willing to learn the CAD skills needed to make the best use of the equipment. Many people have suggested that people could sell their CAD work so that others can print their own models, I think ideas such as the Shapeways shop already caters for this. This is cheaper than spending money on a machine that most likely would not earn its keep in a non-commercial environment.

As Bill indicates, 3D scanning is not as simple as taking a picture (although I find photos very difficult at times!). My understanding of 3D scanning is that for your troubles you get a 3D model which will need to be carefully worked on to remove tiny holes in the mesh. This takes time to create a water tight mesh for 3D printing and would most likely be quicker to build the model from scratch. The positive point to 3D scanning comes from scanning an actual prototype where you can be sure of 99.9% accuracy from the scan.

3D printing is an amazing innovation which is opened up thousands of possibilities for us modellers – most certainly it has allowed me to create models I would never be able to scratch build to the same quality. However it is a big learning curve and not quite the miracle invention the press publicise it as (...yet...).

[sawdust]

This technique interests me greatly as a coach restorer, as we need small runs of parts that will never be viable to have injection moulded. It could also be used to produce low cost patterns for casting in metal.

Sawdust.

[Atso]

This technique interests me greatly as a coach restorer, as we need small runs of parts that will never be viable to have injection moulded. It could also be used to produce low cost patterns for casting in metal.

Sawdust.

Hi Sawdust, others have used it for just that. How lowcost it would be after the CAD work and printing I wouldn't be able to say. Depends if you have access to a friendly CAD designer and the size of the part for printing. Any particular parts you have in mind?

[sawdust]

This technique interests me greatly as a coach restorer, as we need small runs of parts that will never be viable to have injection moulded. It could also be used to produce low cost patterns for casting in metal.

Sawdust.

Hi Sawdust, others have used it for just that. How lowcost it would be after the CAD work and printing I wouldn't be able to say. Depends if you have access to a friendly CAD designer and the size of the part for printing. Any particular parts you have in mind?

Top of my list are the mirror frames for 1623. What is the largest size these machines can produce?

Sawdust.

[Atso]

For a full list of available materials and build sizes try: http://www.shapeways.com/materials/

The most common materials and the (maximum build sizes) I use with Shapeways are:

Frosted Ultra Detail (FUD): 12 x 18 x 15cm

White Strong and Flexible (SWF): 66 x 35 x 55cm

White Detail (WD): 49 x 39 x 20cm

FUD offers the best detail while SWF offers the best price. However SWF has a very rough surface and will need sealing as it is pourous - I've found that SWF can absorb alot of sealant before it is truely sealed (this material will not expand because of this though). WD is quite good but shows the build lines more than FUD. I can't offer any advice on that stability of the model at the maximum sizes of the machine as I've only printed N gauge models.

All these materials will need some finishing work to give a smooth finish (see Altantics thread for some pictures of a FUD model) some people on the Shapeways forum use wire wool for larger models.

Hope this helps.