Smokebox numberplates and shed code plates

[50C]

As an exercise for the long winter nights I thought I would attempt to construct a database of as many of the existing authentic smokebox and shedcode plates as I could research.However,before I start, if there is someone out there who has already started this exercise but given up, for whatever reason, I would you very much appreciate sight of your findings to avoid any duplication of effort.
At nationalisation, when smokebox plates became standard fitment to all locos,there were well over 20000 around-any guesses as to how many may have survived?
I suspect ,however,I will have to start with a blank sheet of paper.The main issue to resolve is whether the plates are genuine or replicas.To get me started the first place to look will be the railwayana auctions ie Great Central,Sheffield,Solent and GWRA where results can be accessed on the internet and are, I assume, genuine.The NRM and preserved railways are another possible source of info,however I suspect some of the preservation groups may also have replicas.If anyone out there has an 'expert'contact at any centre would you mind letting me know.
The most difficult area will be the private owners many of whom will have bought through the auctions so I will pick these up from the internet ,however, some will have been purchased direct from BR,railwayana dealers,private individuals etc.If any of the forum members have plates with proof of authenticity and are prepared to let me know I will include them on the data sheet under an anonymous reference.
Once I reach a reasonable number of plates I will make the list available to all the forum members.If anyone can furnish me with any contacts such as auction sites not on my list I would be very greatful.I will also post this on other railway Forums to see what help is forthcoming.


Thanking you all in anticipation

Onwards and upwards

50C

[50C]

This project is now well under way and so far I have checked through the online results of 46 railwayana auctions.A brief summary of the data so far is as follows-

661 smokebox numberplates were sold but of these 35 appeared twice and 2 appeared three times(47583 AND 90555) giving 622 individual numbers.
There were 146(GWR),47(SR),197(LMS),111(LNER) and 121 (STANDARDS).

Shedplates seem to be 10 a penny as 1229 have been offered for sale but of these there were 375 different codes.
The commonest LNER ones were 52A which appeared 9 times,53B(9) and 64A(8).Both 89D and 84E have appeared 11 times but I am pretty sure they weren't the same ones each time !!

I have put the details of all the plates,auction dates and in some cases prices and lot numbers on a spread sheet which also includes GWR cabside numbers(284)

I have frozen the spread sheet at Issue A.I will continue adding to it and reissue at status B at some time in the future.

It all makes quite interesting reading so if anyone would like a copy please email me.
The file is in excel and is 295 kb.
If you spot any errors etc please let me know.

50C

[Howard Johnston]

What progress????

[Howard Johnston]

How kindly do I access this file plse??

[Flamingo]

The big drawback to what 50C is attempting to do is how to distinguish what might be called 'authentic' plates, i.e. those made by BR itself and affixed to BR engines during their service lives, and all the rest, which are only copies, duplicates, facsimiles, replicas or whatever you prefer to call them.

I know for a fact that one loco preservation group that I was involved with in the 1970s had made for fund-raising purposes about 10 copies or replicas of our engine's smokebox numberplate and about 30 of its shed code plate. The patterns used to make these copies came from the original authentic BR plates, even to the extent of having the BR casting marks on the back. Once painted our duplicates looked identical to the originals carried by the actual locomotive. Every one of them was sold in a short space of time.

If what is needed is something that looks OK on the living room wall (or wherever else you may care to display it) one of our copies would pass muster, and short of a metallurgical analysis to determine the composition of the material would be nearly impossible to identify as not an original.

[50C]

Howard

I will email you issue A of my spread sheet.


50c

[harvester]

What was the policy of LNER/BR as to nameplates, were they all removed and sold or did many end up scrapped with the locomotive?

[Pyewipe Junction]

As far as the Brits and the Southern WCs/BBs and MNs were concerned, the practice seems to have been to remove the nameplates.

I can only assume this was to prevent theft, although you would have to be pretty dedicated and well-equipped to remove them! What happened to the nameplates afterwards is anyone's guess. Perhaps they were sold off.

I think the last of the A4s kept theirs until withdrawal in 1966. Don't know about other ex-LNER locos that lasted past 1965, when this practice seemed to start.