North Eastern 20T Hoppers - The Inside Story

[Rambler]

Plate 124 of Peter Tatlow's original "Pictorial Record of LNER Wagons" shows the inside of an LNER 20T steel hopper wagon, and a notable feature is a handrail that runs around the inside. This set me thinking that maybe the earlier wooden hoppers had a similar arrangement. The published photos (that I have seen) don't show this, so I have been looking at the few remaining, preserved, vehicles.
The following was taken at Beamish in 2007:

NER 20T wooden hopper showing handrail around the inside, on the third plank down.

and this one was taken at Tanfield, earlier this year:

Inside view of a 20T hopper, taken through a hole in the end planking.

The Tanfield picture is the most informative, even if some of the woodwork has disappeared!

[richard]

Yes, interesting ironwork - a little different to how I put them in my two models. With a load I don't think the differece would be noticeable, although the iron oxide is something I should add first...


Richard

[Rambler]

To round off the story so far, this is the other 20T Hopper at Beamish.

LNER 20T Hopper.
As far as I know, the LNER painted them all-over (dark) grey.

As I understand it, the steel end stanchions indicate an LNER built vehicle. Darlington drawing 12509 (which can be viewed at the NRM) shows steel end stanchions and has a 1925 date stamp on it. Given that the wood end stanchions only started to be removed about 1925, I reckon that any LNER built wagon where you can't see the stanchions extended below the headstock has steel end stanchions. The reason why this is of interest is that a number of the official photos are broadside views where you can't see the ends, e.g. 53511 in "North Eastern Album" and 46254 in "The North East Railway Book", both by Ken Hoole.

[richard]

Many of the lower extensions on the wooden stanchions were also chopped off. I don't if know if any were built like this or not.


Richard

[mick b]

Info from Slater kits states LNER used metal stanchions and removed the bottoms of all wood versions.

Mick

[third-rail]

i would have thought when the use of chaldren wagons ceased they would have sawn the ends of the beams off as there would be no point in having these as dumb buffers any more,as these where probably a transitional lower section.

[richard]

It takes effort to go an saw them off unless there's a good reason - so I think many have have stayed even if policy was not to have extensions on new wagons.

Also chaldrons survived a long time. Although they were outlawed on public railways around 1913/14 (forget which exactly), and iirc the NER had sold all their P1s well before this date, many stayed in private use at collieries. It is possible that P5s might have been used alongside those?

The last working chaldrons were withdrawn in the 1960s (Seaham Harbour).
Not bad for what was essentially a pre-steam design from the 18th century!

Richard

[mick b]

Tatlow LNER wagons has the LNER removing them in 1925 this probably refers more to the 20 Ton Dia P7 as modelled by Slaters , the smaller hoppers were being sold off to private users by this time
Mick

[richard]

Sorry I meant "P7" when I said "P5" above!


Richard