Diagram 5 Horse Box (30 built in 1938)

[jaycee]

I am completing a large-scale model of one of these horse boxes and ordered from NRM the photo of 2337, the second vehicle in the series (catalogue no YO282 in the York Carriage Works collection) to clear up a few points of detail.
The only two other photos I have seen of these vehicles are of 2345 (Model Railway Journal No. 121) and 2356 (Historic Carriage Drawings Vol.3) both in early BR days.
The two published photos differ from Peter Tatlow's drawing in a number of respects (including arrangement of battery box/dynamo and the type of hinges on the top doors of the horse compartment). 2337 is the only one of the trio to have the type of upper door hinge shown in PT's drawing.
According to Peter Tatlow, these 30 horse boxes were built at York but the solebar plate on 2337 quite plainly reads 'Darlington' (the negative of 2337 is held in the 'York Carriage Works Collection' at NRM).
2337 is new ex-works in the photo with a paint date 28.11.38 and NE176 as the works.
I am wondering whether some were built at Darlington and others at York and this accounts for variations in the hinge design and other differences or whether it is simply a case of the underframes being prepared at Darlington with the bodies added at York.

Does anyone know of other photos of these vehicles since I am wondering whether the hinges shown on 2345 and 2356 are original fitments or replacements for the type shown in the drawing.

Michael Harris, in 'LNER Carriages' lists diagram 4 (Nos. 2227 to 2335) as having same dimensions as diagram 5 : Does anyone know the difference between the two diagrams?

On the matter of livery, the photo of 2337 shows the tank filler pipes, alarm gear and vacuum pipes in a darker shade than the body (probably black).
The underframe (solebar and headstock included) also appear to be in a darker shade and magnifying the image (23MB supplied on CD) does not reveal any change in tone where the step board support and brake lever rachet overlay the solebar.
I know passenger stock and NPCS with timber underframes had brown solebars but the photo suggests that this vehicle may have had a black underframe : Could this be a consequence of being built at Darlington on a wagon-type of underframe?
Completion of the model is now 'on hold' since the NRM photo has raised more questions than it answered!
Any additional information gratefully received.

John Candy.

[Bill Bedford]

Does anyone know of other photos of these vehicles since I am wondering whether the hinges shown on 2345 and 2356 are original fitments or replacements for the type shown in the drawing.

Logic would suggest hat the shorter hinges proved to be inadequate and longer ones had to be substituted.

Michael Harris, in 'LNER Carriages' lists diagram 4 (Nos. 2227 to 2335) as having same dimensions as diagram 5 : Does anyone know the difference between the two diagrams?

D.4 had no toilet and the grooms compartment was 6'2" long

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[jaycee]

Bill,
Thanks for the information on diagram 4.
My initial thoughts were that the original hinges had proved inadequate but they are identical to the type on the GER D.28.
Built pre-Great War, they lasted with these hinges until the 1950s and the doors show no signs of sagging.
Unless I can find photographic evidence (seems unlikely) it leaves two alternatives.
1) The earliest built D5s used the GER design (perhaps surplus / old stock) and when these were used up a different design was fitted.
2) The GER type proved inadequate and were replaced at some later date (the photos of the two with the longer hinges were both taken in BR days).
Do you happen to know which type of hinge was fitted to the D4?

John Candy