Oxford Diecast diversifies into railway models

[Kestrel]

This matter is discussed on another thread at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11367

[Hatfield Shed]

...This proliferation of poor quality products is doing serious harm to companies which are doing a far better job. I know this is considered to be capitalism and market forces but there are agents at work who are seriously skewing the opinion of the general public and could very well lead to unforeseen and disastrous consequences. The finances of many businesses in this sector are under considerable strain and it is a bit like the story of the butterfly which flaps it's wings eventually causing a hurricane.

I'd see myself as a pretty typical member of the model railway purchasing 'general public' and the 'butterflies' have yet to show anything that might induce me to make a purchase. I foresee the next couple of years dominated by OO purchases from Hornby and Heljan, Cambrian, Parkside and Isinglass; and one singular item manufactured by Rapido for the NRM. (I'd rather like Bachmann to offer me something, but their product plans are almost exclusively items of no interest.)

What I do find interesting is the number of businesses that have come forward proposing RTR 4mm product in the last seven years or thereabouts. Sometime in 2008 - if memory serves - Roco dangled a Double Fairlie, and Dapol began their OO re-entry announcementfest. Since then between stand alone manufacturers and commissioning organisations, there must be past a dozen more parties who have joined in, proposed to bring RTR OO product to market, with about two thirds by now having sold at least some of what they announced. No visible casualties among these so far, other than two/three that failed to progress any distance before evaporating, though I don't expect that to be maintained indefinitely.

[manna]

G'day Gents

So the Oxford wagons have faults, name a Loco/coach/wagon that doesn't, bet there won't be many

manna

[Hatfield Shed]

...So the Oxford wagons have faults, name a Loco/coach/wagon that doesn't, bet there won't be many ...

Perfection is unattainable, so faults there are and always will be. The one small concern I have is that competiton can go in two directions.

The one 'we' like - at least conceptually - is the race to the top; and there's litle doubt that we have seen a fifteen year trend of improvement in accuracy of the models on sale, a few lamentable bloopers notwithstanding. (Heljan's O2 isn't perfect as we generally agree, but we would have been ecstatic with it if Heljan had made this their UK entry product instead of old tubby duff in 2002/2003.)

But commercially the race to the bottom is equally possible if the market conditions demand it. The burger chains a good current example on the high street; and relevant to this hobby in the past Lima and Hornby slugging it out in reducing the quality of the motors and wheelsets to contain the price of the product. A vigorous competitor offering a lower price for a somewhat inferior product can trigger this. If it becomes clear that the smaller price wins sufficient customers away from the superior but more expensive product, it is not rocket science to work out what the response of the other players may be.

But hey, this is railway modelling! I can still make stuff, and so can plenty of other people with this interest. There was practically no model-worthy OO RTR from 1970 - 2000 to satisfy my interest, yet railway modelling still went ahead. And now we have such a mountain of decent RTR in collector's hands, that even if all manufacturing stopped this morning, this heap will be mineable for the bits and pieces for the next 50 years...

[D2100]

So the Oxford wagons have faults, name a Loco/coach/wagon that doesn't, bet there won't be many

That's not really the point though, is it.

Of course models all have faults, some more than others, but I really don't get this idea that nobody should talk about them. As Hatfield says, perfection is not attainable - nor, I'd suggest, is it expected. Everything we buy in life involves decisions based on several factors, some negative; a car that has a little too much mileage, a carpet that's not quite the right colour, whatever. We accept these are necessary compromises - but in order to make the decision, we need to think about them first and decide best options. Can't do that if any mention of anything negative is shouted down.

[bw1165]

I am old enough (and boring enough) to remember way back in the 1970s when the main OO Gauge manufacturer was producing locos which can only be described as an abomination. There were some who criticised those 'models' but I vividly recall correspondence in the old Model Railway Constructor in which people said they were grateful to have the said 'models' (and ones like them) and accused the 'purists' of negativity, nit-picking, and so on and so forth.

I doubt very much that anyone now wants model locomotives to revert to the 'standards' of 1976, but one reason why 2016 models are so very much better is that some people (almost certainly a minority) demanded an improved product.

I am at a loss to understand why manufacturers have such a sloppy attitude to research and production when a little extra effort would give them a superior product which would generate more sales. One reason may be that they know many customers will accept anything, as long as it has a nice paint job and runs straight from the box.

[Horsetan]

....I doubt very much that anyone now wants model locomotives to revert to the 'standards' of 1976, ...

No, but there are still a lot of people who still expect 1976 prices....

[Hatfield Shed]

...I doubt very much that anyone now wants model locomotives to revert to the 'standards' of 1976...

That's a significant year, as it was about then that the Mainline and Airfix/GMR product had upset the applecart more than somewhat. (At that time I was kitbuilding 'everything' in EM and doing battle with a Stephen Poole J15, the castings of which didn't actually leave any space for any available motor in the boiler! That was a very memorable kit build.)

So, as far as body mouldings go, I wouldn't be at all unhappy with items today to the standard of Mainline's J72 and the Airfix N2 and Brush type 2. Dimensionally right, looked well; with some work on refinement and adding extra detail they still look fine and are in use.

All of them now on better mechanisms, the RTR and the kit builds. For a start we didn't realise in 1976 that the smooth running J72 mechanism was going to fall to pieces in relatively few years. And as for the transformation brought by the etched kit chassis, fold up gear boxes and Mashima can motors; I am sure there are many here who will attest to that.

So I would propose that the best in RTR bodies of 1976 represent an acceptable standard, but that the RTR mechanisms were woeful. (We have to wait fifteen more years for the Bachmann 'Spectrum' drive in their Peak of circa 1991, for a truly competent mechanism design to arrive in RTR OO.)

[IAK]

I shall wait and see how these new OR items look "in the flesh..."
Are they decent raw material is my take. So some work is needed to sort them out, well fine. A wee bit of modelling, fettling and tweaking is fine by me.
It would be nice if some of the boo boos didn't happen but hey, nobody got injured, the world has nae ended and you can still buy full fat milk...... P
WIBBLE!

[adrianbs]

Hi All Hatfield Shed is right about the standards set by some of the 70's newbies, especially the loco body mouldings and some of the coaches and wagons, which do still pass muster today, certainly in comparison with the offerings from OR. I dispute his "Smooth running" J.72 as I had one of the first batch. Many, including mine, were returned to Palitoy until they retooled the wheels and chassis. The loco actually "Walked" off the track due to non concentricity of the axles, wheels and crankpins. In a vain attempt to get shot of them they opened up the axles holes so that the errors did not stop the loco dead with jammed rods. I realised that each of the 6?? wheel moulds was differently in error and if the model had a "Good" selection of the wheels it would run reasonably but if, like mine, the random mix was bad, it waddled like a duck with 2 broken legs. The Split axle was fatally flawed in design rather than as a concept because plastic does not like being in tension and can split unless externally sleeved. Had the muffs been fitted into the stub axle rather than outside it I doubt the problems would have been so serious. Hub insulated wheels rarely give problems but Palitoy suffered badly with split muffs, as had the original EAMES Airfix Drewry shunter motorising kit years before. I am not sure of the design used in the DJ Models split chassis locos but if the lesson has not been learned there will trouble ahead. I well remember the late 70s toy fairs which I visited in Brighton and the sudden influx of superficially superb models but the mechanisms failed to match the looks and whilst Hornby sat back on their laurels the 3 newbies fought themselves to death until they had all gone out of business for one reason or another. Perhaps a lesson that has still to be learnt with the proliferation of newcomers in the last 10 years.

[D2100]

It would be nice if some of the boo boos didn't happen but hey, nobody got injured, the world has nae ended and you can still buy full fat milk...... P

Sure, it's good to have some perspective, and no, it isn't life or death, but I don't see that as a reason for these things not to be discussed.

[Hatfield Shed]

...I dispute his "Smooth running" J.72 as I had one of the first batch. Many, including mine, were returned to Palitoy until they retooled the wheels and chassis...

Actually that is indisputable. My two were perfect, but when the opportunity came to compare notes a few years later it was clear that all was not well (busy, busy, busy phase in my early career!). There was also apparently a lot of mazak rot in the wheelsets, didn't experience that either.

[adrianbs]

Hi All I am glad to say that today's new pictures of the Adams Radial by HORNBY do show a far better attempt than Oxfordrail. Almost all the errors of the latter are absent. About 24 faults on the OR model have been correctly portrayed and others may well be OK but cannot yet be seen. The only areas where improvement is needed are the edges of the chimney and dome base. The former is rather too thick and the latter has almost disappeared which is a shame considering how much better the safety valve and base has been modelled. The low Adams dome on 30584 does not look quite right but at least it has not been used on 488 (30583) which OR misinterpreted. Those wishing to use a Radial in Scotland via the NBR may well be willing to spend a bit extra to obtain a superior looking product.

[mick b]

Nice model

http://www.hornbymagazine.com/view_article.asp?ID=9603

[adrianbs]

Hi All Oxfordrail have now shown images of the 6th and 7th variants of the Adams Radial. If their models match these artist's impressions/photo shopped pictures of 3520 in Maunsell green and Bulleid black then Hornby should be laughing all the way to the bank. OR's comments about the "complex history of these locos" certainly seems to be only too true as the complications seem to have thoroughly defeated them.