Heljan Gresley O2 2-8-0 'Tango'

[john coffin]

Every one has to be happy with their own approach to the hobby, what I was trying to point out is that tenders moved around.
The weighhouse put tenders on relevant locos, so it is not always accurate to rely on the cards.

Paul

[Woodcock29]

Sea Eagle's close up photos concern me further with the quality of this model. There appears to be a moulding mark of some form on the front of the chimney stem not just the damage around the top we have seen in other photos. There also appear to be significant moulding marks of some form on the main steam pipes to the cylinders. We've already seen the marks along the boiler upper surfaces in other photos. I think I said before that the chimneys on the O2/3s (and O2/4s unless possibly they were reboilered O2/1s which may possibly have still had a tall GN chimney although that is probably unlikely) should all be the shorter variety as they were built to conform to LNER loading gauge not the tall variety fitted to two of these three versions by Heljan.

Maybe the blemishes referred to above are only seen more clearly by the camera and not our naked eye - the case of the camera being very cruel?

Further on the tender handrail issue I note in Sea Eagle's tender rear view that the handrails are different heights on one side of the tender to the other - I noticed this on the pilot models that Tony Wright photographed but assumed it was just different options being shown on one model. So this seems to be another inconsistency in the model. I've checked the photos of all three versions on a website in the West Country and all three models have short handrails on the left hand side of the tender and full height handrails on the right hand side - not sure why I didn't notice that before? Still I'll only have to change one side if I want the longer handrails that they all appear to have had (from photographic evidence) on their tenders after those attached to some of the first O2/3s which came from J38s had theirs replaced with taller handrails (which is fully explained in Yeadon Vol 9.)

Still hoping mine will arrive some time next week.

Woodcock29

[Hatfield Shed]

That's fun, the different length handrails, I'll have to look at mine for that.

And, so it is, different length either side. Not that it bothers me, being one of those types who doubles the loco stud by having different names/numbers either side. (Also some coaches carrying different livery either side too, for train variety.)

[Kestrel]

O2/3 arrived from Liverpool with smokebox door and tender rear handrails adrift with broken / missing knobs. Right hand horizontal cab handrail was attached at a rather jaunty angle. Otherwise not too bad. I didn't want to risk sending it back only to get one that was worse, so spent this evening in the company of wire and brass knobs. Despite exercising extreme care I still managed to create a little cryanolite bloom, but this will be covered by the heavy weathering which is next up for this loco. Handrails and knobs will be blackened all round as will axle stubs. I think it's going to look good.

The O2 and Doncaster on the buffer beam aren't straight. Were they on it when it arrived?

[Sea Eagle]

The O2 and Doncaster on the buffer beam aren't straight. Were they on it when it arrived?

The class designation and shed allocation decals are sloping as supplied, but to be honest this is the least of the problems with this model. If I was being really pedantic I'd add that these decals are somewhat oversized, and it's highly likely that there would have been a dash ( - ) between the "O" and the "2" if normal post war practice was being followed. As I don't have a photo of this particular loco I can't be sure though.

As mentioned in my previous post, I thought long and hard about sending the model back to the retailer, but based on other comments on this and another forum I wasn't confident that a replacement would be any better. In short I really wanted a model of this prototype, and I'm confident that I couldn't build a kit to a higher standard. My model will be heavily weathered, so I'm prepared to accept some compromises on the "out of the box" finish.

Having said that it doesn't sit that well that I've paid £150 for a model which has some significant defects, and I've informed the retailer of this. I've also cancelled a pre-order for an O2/4 as I'm not prepared to accept another model with similar problems, so hopefully the required message has been sent to both the retailer and the manufacturer. It's a shame that Heljan have been let down by quality control, but I can't help thinking that if they'd stuck with their original idea of producing just one O2 variant they wouldn't have experienced the same QC problems. In the end everything has to be produced to a price, and perhaps the decision to produce a "modular" model with four major variants was a step too far. Recent experience with the Hornby A3 "Book Law" shows that Heljan are not the only manufacturer with these sorts of problems - although of course back in the far off days when Chinese suppliers were much cheaper Hornby were able to produce defect free A1s/A3 with all major variants accounted for! It also seems that Heljan have used rather cheap, self coloured plastics and the decision to use plastic handrail knobs is questionable at best.

I've kept my O2/2 pre-order open in the hope that Heljan will learn some lessons from this first batch of models, and put in the required work with their manufacturing supplier.

In the meantime I would recommend that anybody looking to buy a Heljan O2 inspects their intended model in the shop before purchase rather than mail ordering it.

[Woodcock29]

My LNER version arrived today. I have only been able to give it a bit of running in today but it seems to be ok. Has very mild squeak going forward but I expect something needs a bit of lubrication or it might be one of the pickups needing adjustment.

Nothing fell off during transit to Australia but later today one of what I suppose are the injectors under the cab fell off - fortunately I noticed it and it is now glued back on.

The chimney, although too tall for this version is not too bad and the top might be useable with a bit of mild filing to remove the sprue marks on the top. I'll either need to slice a bit of the stem of the chimney out or manage to get the top off (it is a separate part but seems to be well glued on) and file the top of the stem down by about 1mm. Alternatively I might fit a whole new chimney.

As indicated before from viewing photos it has long tender handrails on the right hand side and short ones on the left - so I'll need to fit long ones on the left hand side.

The smokebox dart whilst quite neat is not seated in far enough and needs to be sliced off, the hole drilled out and then be fitted back on - set further in.

One curious fact about the tender - the front and rear coal plates don't reach right out to the stepped out coping plates. I suspect this is an error but I need to peruse a range of photos to be sure.

The motion bracket is not located centrally as it sticks out much further on the left hand side and overall I think is a bit too wide so I'll investigate its seating when I get time to take the body off and may even narrow it down a bit if that's feasible. As the motion bracket is also part of the slidebars it means the slidebars stick out too far at the rear. Incidentally one side is in forward gear and one is in reverse! On mine the left hand side valve rod was set above the pivot of the expansion link and the right hand one is set below the pivot of the expansion link. These are not in anyway connected to the expansion and link and do have a reversing linkage which can be twisted so that the right hand side rod is now also in forward gear. The return cranks seem to be almost centrally located and not set with the forward lean that they should have. I found I could gently push these around into a forward set so hopefully they stay that way. I might need to carefully tighten the hex screws that hold them in place.

It comes fitted with very neat screw couplings and the hook and bar couplings are in a separate packet to fit.

The paint finish overall in my opinion is not good, just like the LMS Garratt it seems to have a plastic look to the finish - I think it is painted though as the finish looks marginally different to the unpainted footsteps under the cab which definitely look just like plastic.

However, despite all these little things it does look like an O2/3 and is not the debacle that Hornby's Book Law was.

I'll give it a loaded test run once its sufficiently run in but given reports from TW elsewhere it should more than adequately handle my 40 wagon loaded coal trains. It just might have to fight the P1, old Nucast O2/2, Ks O4 (which hauls anything with its Portescap!) or any of the 3 Bachmann O4s (O4/1, O4/3 and O4/5) currently running!

It will get a repaint and be numbered/lettered in pre-war shaded letters.

Woodcock29

[mick b]

One for the bargain bin in due course.

[Woodcock29]

I have just had an hour to fiddle around with the disassembled O2/3 and have found that I can wiggle the motion brackets loose. To insert them further you need to cut a piece off the front corner of the piece that goes into the chassis as the slot is angled such that it is narrower at the back hence you can't just push the brackets further in. I've just done that - pushing the left hand side in further than I needed to push the right hand side in. I have glued them back in with 5 min epoxy and hope that does the trick. It is a bit fiddly. The overall width across the brackets from one side to the other should be around 34.5mm I reckon. This is best done with the motor and its heavy base support removed.

The top cover of the motor and the heavy base both need to be removed before the plastic footplate can be removed. Although it is possible to flex the footplate and slide it off forwards with the motor and motor base in place. The footplate is removed after the boiler and cab have been unscrewed.

I have discovered that the wires are actually in a plug that slots into the front of the drawbar and can be removed after the drawbar is unscrewed from the loco so it is possible to remove the wire connection from the drawbar to separate engine and tender.

Might a be a few weeks before I have time to repaint it.

I must say I always find this sort of thing fun! Not that I should have had to do this in the first place however and it is distracting me from building brass GN coaches!

Woodcock29

[Kestrel]

The March HM landed today and there's a review of the Tango.

The loco's weight of 510g (cf 331g for Hornby O1) enabled it to pull 60 wagons without a problem.

On their sample of 63983, the chassis was balanced towards the rear which was lifting the front driving wheels off the track on bends, causing it to derail. They resolved it by adding weight inside the empty smokebox. They checked another one and that was alright.

[mick b]

The March HM landed today and there's a review of the Tango.

The loco's weight of 510g (cf 331g for Hornby O1) enabled it to pull 60 wagons without a problem.

On their sample of 63983, the chassis was balanced towards the rear which was lifting the front driving wheels off the track on bends, causing it to derail. They resolved it by adding weight inside the empty smokebox. They checked another one and that was alright.

A very airbrushed review , no mention of the finish, plastic knobs and unpainted handrails and the other problems already listed here and on the dark side.

[mick b]

If anyone wants these cheap here.


http://www.hobb-e-mail.com/bargain-of-the-week.html

[Alpineman]

I have the LNER O2/3 version of this loco, no 3965, originally no 3835, of the 1942 batch. It has the step sided GS tender. I would like to change it to represent one of the 1932 series of O2/3s in 1930s livery.

A check online gives the numbers for the 1932 series as 2954-2961, but I want to make sure I choose a number that is correct for the loco and tender. Heljan offer 63948 (ex 2955); 63952 (ex 2959) and 63954 (ex 2961) from the 1932 series all with stepped tenders, so could anyone please advise me whether all the 1932s were originally built with stepped tenders? If so, were they in the form as modelled by Heljan? I noticed the GS stepped tender with my Bachmann K3 no 2934 has the rear edge of the coal space further back than that on the O2, so that it cuts across the top of the water pick up dome. It otherwise looks similar, so should the O2 tender be the same please or is it correct as modelled by Heljan?

Are there noticeable differences between the locos of the 1942 and 1932 series? I know that the chimney is too tall for any O2/3, but are there any other alterations needed to represent the earlier period correctly? I have seen the recent BRM article, but since Tony Wright was modelling a BR loco, it doesn't help with the LNER period. Many thanks.

Alpineman

[Woodcock29]

Hi Alpineman

The stepped top tender is fine for the batch you want to model. Note, you need to lengthen the handrails on the left hand side of the tender to match those on the right side. You are right to query the rear coal plate - in my view it should be across the centre of the water pickup dome. You also need to fill the gap to the left of the front coal plate - the one on the right is ok as that is for the fire irons.

In answer to your question there is nothing else you really need to do other than replace the chimney to make it into one of the batch you mention.

On mine I have undertaken the following to refine the model.

I replaced the buffers with the equivalent ones from Maygib - Spender double action for the loco and LNER group standard for the tender. I've also replaced the smokebox door handles with brass ones.

I have fitted a brass B1 chimney to mine as that is the correct height. I did first up shorten the Heljan plastic chimney but in the end still didn't like the look of the top on that. I have scraped off the moulding lines on the top sides of the boiler on mine. I have also removed the moulded piping on the smokebox around the main steam pipes and replaced this with wire.

Of a more drastic nature I have replaced the expansion links in the valve gear with correct shaped ones and cut off the strange little vertical extensions on the front of the eccentric rods and drilled the front of the rods and riveted these to the bottom of the new expansion links.

I still have to paint it and finish it off as I've been distracted with other projects and activities. Mine will be No 2956 of March.

Hope this helps.

Woodcock29

[Alpineman]

Thank you Woodcock29. I was planning to shorten the chimney rather than replace it, to limit the risk of damaging the factory finish of the smoke box, so I'm a bit disappointed to hear it doesn't look right. I hadn't noticed the tender handrails being different lengths, but now you mention it I can see it. How odd. I had already intended to replace the flimsy plastic handrail knobs on the loco with brass ones so will do the tender as well. I will also change the rear coal space edge, replace the unrealistic plastic "coal" with some of the real thing and add a fall plate to the cab. Your modifications to the valve gear sound more radical than I feel able to tackle, so I will leave that alone. Regards.

Alpineman

[Woodcock29]

Alpineman

The rim of the top of the chimney was what I didn't like particularly and it may well be damaged if you look closely as it comes from a sprue where it is attached on two sides and appears to have been pulled off causing some damage. I know this because Howes of Oxford have spares available so I purchased a set of the sprues which include all sorts of interesting parts that could be useful on other projects including two smokebox doors.

I decided to leave the handrail knobs alone although I was tempted to replace them but they are quite fine in scale. I did however reposition one on the front right cab handrail which is too high - had to remove it, fill and redrill the hole - every model I've seen seems to suffer this fault - the position of the hole must be set up wrong in the machines they use in manufacture. Once I've given it a coat of primer if they don't look great I might still replace them with brass ones. Its needs to be fully repainted in my view because the paint applied to it appears to be very thin and quite simply still appears almost to be like raw plastic. Some parts haven't been painted eg the cab footsteps. The Heljan Garratt wad the same in my view and I've seen others comment on this.

I can't imagine many would be tempted to do what I did with the valve gear and you would have to have suitable expansion links available in the spares box - I was just lucky in that regard as I got them amongst items from the estate of a friend. I also have a thing about valve gear and nothing seems to phase me in that regard.

Good luck with yours

Woodcock29