Isambard Kingdom Brunel

[StevieG]

I'm obliged for the fuller-picture details Hatfield Shed : Not so beneficial at that time then.
The eventual fate and resting places of the trains and occupants at some disaster like Ladbroke Grove, had they been broad gauge trains, would have been interesting, but I imagine would take an inordinate amount of thought, calculation and theoretical prediction to reach any such conclusion.

[Mickey]

Norton Fitzwarren 1890 was a moving BG train, striking a stationary standard gauge goods train

I may be wrong but i think i remember O.S.Nock (renowned deceased railway author) do a reconstruction of this particular railway accident on the telly back in 1970??.

From memory the Norton Fitzwarren signalman forgot he had a stationary light loco standing in the path of an approaching train during the hours of darkness which wasn't helped by the fact that the fireman of the stationary loco didn't carrying out rule 55 also i believe 'lever collars' officially came about because of this accident although i havan't read about this accident for many years to be totally certain about exactly what happened and it's aftermath?.


Mickey

[Hatfield Shed]

There was a lot went wrong to cause the collision - usual thing, multiple errors by various parties - signalman failed to observe rules, the SG loco driver actively broke the rule by putting a green lamp on the front of his loco while on the wrong road, and not sending off his fireman to remind the signalman of their standing wrong road.

And also an interesting snippet: a broad gauge pilot engine had been detached from the front of the standard gauge loco, before it had been moved 'wrong road', and thus into the path of traffic on the other line. This was not relevant to the collision at all: but it is something that officially 'never happened': working of BG and SG in the same train once the GWR tracks were dual gauged was always denied.

...The eventual fate and resting places of the trains and occupants at some disaster like Ladbroke Grove, had they been broad gauge trains, would have been interesting, but I imagine would take an inordinate amount of thought, calculation and theoretical prediction to reach any such conclusion.

I would go with the thought that given the same standard of construction and same operational conditions, the kinetic energy to be dissipated is the same, thus the deformation of the structure and the accelerations experienced by those on board are the same, and the outcomes likely much the same. Though the possibility of 'stability' making outcomes worse should not be ignored.

This was brought home to me four decades ago when a Trident flight deep stalled and pancaked into a field near Heathrow in 1972. The aircraft looked near intact, but all on board died. This surprised me, as some similar velocity aircraft impacts with apparently much worse damage to the airframe - to the point of the wreck no longer looking like an aircraft - had survivors.

The explanation was simple, the stable flight configuration applied much the same violent acceleration to all on board as it impacted. Going in one end or one wing first, so that the accelerations of those on board were reduced by significant structures of the aircraft acting as a crumple zone, could result in survivors from an apparently far worse damaged aircraft. In short 'messy' accidents can be better than 'stable' for human outcomes, because more of the energy is dissipated in structure damage.

[Mickey]

There was a lot went wrong to cause the collision - usual thing, multiple errors by various parties - signalman failed to observe rules, the SG loco driver actively broke the rule by putting a green lamp on the front of his loco while on the wrong road, and not sending off his fireman to remind the signalman of their standing wrong road.

Yes i actually remembered about the driver exchanging red lamps to green lamps while i was writing that post but left it out cos i didn't want to get to bogged down in the story.

This was brought home to me four decades ago when a Trident flight deep stalled and pancaked into a field near Heathrow in 1972.

Strangely i believe i vaguely remember this crash on the telly news at Heathrow back in 1972 not that i'm really into aircraft or air travel.


Mickey

[StevieG]

Hmm.
Very insightful and thought-provoking .
Many thanks.