Cock o' the North

[Saint Johnstoun]

I wonder if the University of Strathclyde still have their lie detector? A loan of it to plug Simon K into it at ModelRail Scotland 2014 might give some interesting results!

[Autocar Publicity]

Please take a video camera along as well...

[AJ427]

Normally this would be just slightly annoying however my pre-ordered P2 is to be the centrepiece of a small diorama for dad's 70th in July so it's now looking rather doubtful if it will arrive in time to detail and weather, if it arrives at all. Thanks Hornby.

Really it's all about managing expectations and Hornby need to be much more realistic in their annual delivery programme otherwise disgruntled ex-customers will be the result. They either need to move to an 18-24 month programme or else keep upcoming products under wraps until an advanced stage of pre-production.

Of course equally it could be Hattons who have just guestimated the original delivery dates...

[Autocar Publicity]

To be fair, I suspect a lot of the delays are due to factors outside Hornby's control. On other threads people have commented on how Hornby is at the mercy of others when it comes to production and how Bachmann have an advantage with being part of the Kader group of toymakers.

However, there's no doubt in my mind that Hornby have serious problems and one of those is their PR. Over the last couple of years they have upset a lot of people, from retailers to customers and they are fast acquiring a bad reputation. I think there are many disgruntled ex-customers already.

I don't know how Hattons operate, but in the days when I ran Metcalfe's shop, our policy was to say,"We have received news from X that Loco Y has been tooled/approved/gone into production/arrived at Felixstowe and is expected in 12 months/three months/next Thursday...". Obviously, some of that information needs taking with a bigger pinch of salt than others. Until a model is actually being shipped, I don't think anyone can be very precise about dates and that's just the way the world is at the moment. It's still frustrating for people who want a particular model for a particular present though - been there myself!

[Kestrel]

Yet another e-mail from Hatton's this morning.

Hello

We thought you may like to know that an item you have on order with us has had some information about its release date added or updated.

Hornby R3207 Class P2 2-8-2 2001 'Cock O' The North' in LNER livery . "Main range"version. Etched nameplates & enhanced livery £99.00

Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Monday 30th June 2014

Whilst we are hopeful this information is accurate, manufacturer lead times are frequently prone to be delayed. This information is to be used as a guide only.

We hope that this email has been useful.

Regards

Retail Team
Hattons Model Railways
http://www.ehattons.com

This is a repeat of Wednesday's e-mail so maybe this is the final date. It gives people enough time to save up their pennies or let their plastic recover from Christmas.

This follows on from the interview with 'Hornby's popular and immensely respected Marketing Manager Simon Kohler' that appears in the February edition of HORNBY Magazine out yesterday, which granted was recorded in December, and states that "the Railroad version of the P2 will be out in January/February. The main range model of the Gresley 2-8-2 is expected March/April."

[Atlantic 3279]

They've sent me that one TWICE again today, as well as the original statement of the delay until June. Perhaps they are being kind enough to ensure that the penny really has dropped for any of us who were not sufficiently disappointed by the first mesage!

[Atlantic 3279]

So as to try to get to the bottom of what is going on, or as nearly there as possible, I have queried the situation directly with a contact at Hornby. I cannot quote the exchange of messages in full, but an interesting phrase from the Hornby side was "there is no point in spoiling a good model just to hit a date", which even if it causes frustration ought to be good news in the end. I also get the impression that Hornby DO regard the latest forecast delivery date as a credible one.

My feeling is that the morals of this story are:
1. That initial forecasts of delivery dates really ought to be taken only as a vague guide.
2. That phrases such as "4th quarter" should be regarded as indicating the END of the quarter.

[James Harrison]

So as to try to get to the bottom of what is going on, or as nearly there as possible, I have queried the situation directly with a contact at Hornby. I cannot quote the exchange of messages in full, but an interesting phrase from the Hornby side was "there is no point in spoiling a good model just to hit a date", which even if it causes frustration ought to be good news in the end. I also get the impression that Hornby DO regard the latest forecast delivery date as a credible one.

My feeling is that the morals of this story are:
1. That initial forecasts of delivery dates really ought to be taken only as a vague guide.
2. That phrases such as "4th quarter" should be regarded as indicating the END of the quarter.

That is good news indeed; thank you for querying the situation with Hornby. Although it is frustrating to have had the P2 delayed again, I think that Hornby are probably doing the right thing in the long term if there are issues with it as it currently stands. A model rushed is a model ruined, after all.

What I don't understand is why Hornby (and Bachmann) keep announcing their models with an expected release date? The last few years in particular it seems many have been woefully delayed- surely announcing new models with a 'they will be ready when they are ready' line would save us much frustration, prevent froth on forums and prevent bad PR for the companies when models are delayed?

[Autocar Publicity]

What I don't understand is why Hornby (and Bachmann) keep announcing their models with an expected release date? The last few years in particular it seems many have been woefully delayed- surely announcing new models with a 'they will be ready when they are ready' line would save us much frustration, prevent froth on forums and prevent bad PR for the companies when models are delayed?

I've been there myself, albeit on a much smaller scale and with far less publicity. As I say on our web-site, whenever I've predicted a date, it's usually the cue for something to crop up and wreck my workplan & schedule. So now we don't give a formal ETA, and just say we're planning models/materials of X & Y and if you're interested, drop us an e-mail and we'll tell you when it's available. Admittedly, this isn't a realistic option for Bachmann & Hornby! Somehow I doubt they'd care to use my system of estimates/guidance of ETAs: 'soon' (within a few weeks), 'not too far off' (probably within three or four months), 'we're planning X' (hopefully this year) and 'we're thinking about' (anytime in the next couple of years)...

[Atlantic 3279]

As the Hattons messages do not (yet) appear to have indicated that the Railroad P2 will not appear until late June, I am trying to find out if Hornby still "reliably" expect this one to be with us in late April. If so, it will provide me with something to keep my razor saw and lining pen happy. I might then have the second or third P2 on the road before the first one.

[Atlantic 3279]

I have a reply, which does not appear to relate to just the Railroad version, indicating that the P2s should in fact start arriving in May, so make sure you have money available for the bill!

There has evidently been some confusion with the relaying of messages. The now likely date of May does not seem to be out of line with conclusions I had drawn myself from Simon Kohler's remarks when I was talking to him at Barrow Hill last September. I didn't at that time press him directly on final delivery dates, thinking it unrealistic to do so, but I estimated late Spring based on the fact that he seemed to be expecting to see only further "proving samples" in the early part of this year.

[AJ427]

I have a reply, which does not appear to relate to just the Railroad version, indicating that the P2s should in fact start arriving in May, so make sure you have money available for the bill!

There has evidently been some confusion with the relaying of messages. The now likely date of May does not seem to be out of line with conclusions I had drawn myself from Simon Kohler's remarks when I was talking to him at Barrow Hill last September. I didn't press him directly on final delivery dates, thinking it unrealistic to do so, but I estimated late Spring based on the fact that he seemed to be expecting to see only further "proving samples" in the early part of this year.

Good news indeed. Thanks Graeme for getting to the bottom of this.

[teaky]

Thanks for digging Graeme.

When you do start sawing up your shiny new model (or when you chop up your next coach perhaps), can you post photos of exactly how you manage to saw things so neatly please? If there's one thing that defeats me it is cutting three dimensional objects perfectly straight. Or do you use jigs / mitre boxes?

[D2100]

What I don't understand is why Hornby (and Bachmann) keep announcing their models with an expected release date? The last few years in particular it seems many have been woefully delayed- surely announcing new models with a 'they will be ready when they are ready' line would save us much frustration, prevent froth on forums and prevent bad PR for the companies when models are delayed?

They're pretty much damned whatever they do; some people no doubt do want a date (even if it's subject to 'adjustment'), maybe for budgeting purposes or planning new projects.

As for preventing froth on forums ... well, I wish I had your faith For one thing, folk would still ask; they do now, even when the latest info is right there on the manufacturer's website...

[Sniffer]

Not sure if this is completely topical, but it must be something related to current issues.

I registered a notify e-mail with Hattons for A4 DOC back in October for model no.R3252. Current price with Hornby at that time was £170.
2 weeks ago I received an e-mail offering the same model as R3197 for £134.00 + postage.

It's home now and is top notch.

Anyone else noticed similar ?