Park Siding. ECML spotting venue

[JASd17]

Hi Manna,

I am not sure exactly how 'Park Siding' changed over time. There was a siding No.1 which ended somewhere near the junction of Crescent Road and Dagmar Road today. The area was less built over on Crescent Rise, as far as I can see from maps of that time, near allotments. Perhaps that is where the vantage point was.

Frank quickly moved on to Oakleigh Park, where he met several other enthusiasts, on the footbridge over the line south of the station, including Dr Geoff Hughes, who died very recently, aged 99.

John

[StevieG]

G'day Gents

At last a real location for 'Park' sidings, IIRC, they were a set of three sidings that went under the Hertford branch 'fly-over', opposite Bounds Green c/s, they've been gone now for many a good year.

manna

Manna, is it the sidings on the Down side of the main line, running from north of Bridge Road overbridge (the one that crosses a spot immediately off the north end of Wood Green station), then under the Down Hertf. line flyover to WG Tunnel Box, that you're referring to ? They'd gone by a few years before 1967 ('Tunnel Box' closed around 1961-63 I believe).

I know that they had consisted of at least two roads, maybe three as you say, from the station end, and at least two of these had once been accessible at that end via the long through crossover to the Up Fast and Slow just north of Bridge Road bridge, but I've an idea that they merged into one to the north, to pass under the flyover and continue the short distance to join the Down Goods just before it connected into the Down Slow at Tunnel Box.
The Tunnel Box diagram also showed another, gated, siding joining, and on the west side of, the Down Goods here.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Yes, they are the ones, I used to have a couple of pictures of them, but someone tried to get my credit card details and I had to wipe everything off of my computer, I'll have a look around.

manna

PS, as the Pic says, bridge renewal 1937, you can see a extra track on the extreme left, this led to the sidings.

[Mickey]

Looks like what became the Rowntree sidings seen on the right beyond the right-hand bridge hole and no doubt you was given a box of Walnut Whips and a box of Rowntree Fruit Pastilles from the Bounds Green shunter manna when you was a secondman on the Bounds Green pilot a 350hp 0-6-0 diesel shunter.

Mickey

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Yep had Walnut whips once, smarties (I think another time).

manna

[StevieG]

Nice one there manna (the photo I mean ); quite a lot of little things to spot if you zoom in: like the gate into the siding that I mentioned, on the west side of the Down Goods. And that, as Mickey says what became Rowntrees sidings, looks to have then had at least four, perhaps five roads.
Later on (1980s?) the Rowntrees building came to bear the name of ----(?) Tiles. Although a siding still passed under their door, not sure whether they ever generated any rail traffic.

[Mickey]

By modern day standards the p.way in the Up & Down fast & slow lines at Wood Green in 1937 looks a bit on the 'ropey' side also it looks like some lifting & packing by the p.way department wouldn't have gone amiss and no doubt there are a few rail defects & flaws that could have been picked up on as well just from looking at the photograph.

Mickey

[JASd17]

I did note some less than well supported sleepers on a preserved railway I have recently visited.

John

[Dave Cockle]

These were known as Wood Green Tunnel Sidings.

[giner]

Mention of Wood Green Tunnel and adjacent factories reminded me of a glass works that was on the up side just by the northern end of the tunnel. They used to store bottles and such in their yard ready for recycling. As kids, we used to "help them out", so to speak. A smashing time had by all.

[Mickey]

Mention of Wood Green Tunnel and adjacent factories reminded me of a glass works that was on the up side just by the northern end of the tunnel. They used to store bottles and such in their yard ready for recycling. As kids, we used to "help them out", so to speak. A smashing time had by all.

The border area between inner & outer suburban London with Wood Green tunnel marking the boundary. Immediately north of the Wood Green tunnel mouth and heading northwards in the down direction first on a small length of straight track and then onto a long sweeping right-hand curve towards the southern approaches to New Southgate station was the first real glimpse of greenery to be seen to the left on the downside of the line from the carriage window after leaving Kings Cross while at the same time passing over the nearby busy North circular road below and with Friern Barnet hospital to be seen to the north west before passing through New Southgate (For Friern Barnet) station.

In pre-electrification days during the late 1960s & early 1970s on this 4-track section of the GN main line the signalling in that immediate area south of New Southgate station and before Wood Green tunnel was as follows, on the Down slow line on leaving the single line tunnel bore there was a set of un-worked catch points with New Southgate's Down slow line semaphore distant signal mounted on a small size concrete post with it's own attendant concrete fogging hut standing very close by while on the Up lines standing approximately 150 yards further northwards of New Southgate's Down slow line semaphore distant signal was New Southgate's Up fast line starting signal a x3 aspect colour light signal that also acted as Wood Green Up Box No.2s colour light distant signal (and also Wood Green Up Box No.4s outer distant signal) and on the Up slow line standing opposite the Up fast line starting signal was New Southgate's Up slow line semaphore starting signal with Wood Green Up Box No.2 Up slow line distant signal beneath it mounted on a straight white painted metal tubular post.

* * * New Southgate's Down fast line x2 aspect colour light distant signal stood on the immediate southern approach to Wood Green tunnel* * *

Mickey

[StevieG]

Mention of Wood Green Tunnel and adjacent factories reminded me of a glass works that was on the up side just by the northern end of the tunnel. They used to store bottles and such in their yard ready for recycling. As kids, we used to "help them out", so to speak. A smashing time had by all.

giner ; 'The Standard Bottle Co.', if I remember correctly (and which virtually fronted onto Bounds Green Road).

" .... Immediately north of the Wood Green tunnel mouth and heading northwards in the down direction first on a small length of straight track and then onto a long sweeping right-hand curve towards the southern approaches to New Southgate station was the first real glimpse of greenery to be seen to the left on the downside of the line from the carriage window after leaving Kings Cross while at the same time passing over the nearby busy North circular road below and with Friern Barnet hospital to be seen to the north west before passing through New Southgate (For Friern Barnet) station. .... "

One late 1960s Sat. afternoon, I recall going from 'Southgate' box for a walk (I wasn't on duty at the time) past, and just south of, the Goods Shed; the sidings of which you may recall subsequently merged into one spur in the direction of the tunnel, which, by running along the Up side cutting top, rose significantly higher than the US, up to its buffer stop.
While not being totally a figment of my imagination, I have some vague recollections of, to my surprise, finding there, not too far from the Up Slow, a rickety-rackety narrow gauge railway track (1' or 15", I'd guess, and little, or perhaps completely, disused), , presumably running for some probably short distance paralleling one of the standard gauge sidings, but then passing through a dilapidated metal gate to a reversing siding and then turning away eastwards towards and/or between a mix of open ground and small industrial buildings in that direction, (some areas may've been where a one or two had been demolished) but some of which, easily seen from the main line, lasted quite a few years longer IIRC, and the track may even have gone all the way to the glass works.
(Mapping in the London A to Z suggests that that whole area now includes roads called Ring Way, North Way, South Way, and Gateway.)

" .... In pre-electrification days during the late 1960s & early 1970s on this 4-track section of the GN main line the signalling in that immediate area south of New Southgate station and before Wood Green tunnel was .... " -- " .... New Southgate's Up fast line starting signal a x3 aspect colour light signal that also acted as Wood Green Up Box No.2s colour light distant signal (and also Wood Green Up Box No.4s outer distant signal) and on the Up slow line standing opposite the Up fast line starting signal was New Southgate's Up slow line semaphore starting signal with Wood Green Up Box No.2 Up slow line distant signal beneath it mounted on a straight white painted metal tubular post. "

The predecessor to these two signals was a really interesting, possibly rare, structure, Mickey.
In one of the one-time "Railway Reflections" magazine, there was a fantastic double-page spread colour photo looking to the tunnel from the Down side cess just north of the Up Starting etc. signals, of an A4-hauled early 1960s Down Express approaching.
But the signals were really prominent to the fore in the photo's left-hand side : It was a two-bracketed 3-doll all-concrete configuration rooted in the six-foot between the two Up lines, with, in the centre, at middle-height of the three, the Up Slow Starter with Wood Green No.2 Box's Distant below (actually designated 'Outer Distant', as the yellow discs, one on each side, inside the tunnel's US bore's south end were the 'Inner Distants'); the left-hand bracket (with lowest doll) just had WG2's Up Slow-to-Goods 'splitting' Outer Distant; the right-bracket, higher than the left one(!), and (no surprise) with the highest doll, had the Up Fast (also mechanical) Starter with WG2's mech. Distant below.

[Mickey]

While not being totally a figment of my imagination, I have some vague recollections of, to my surprise, finding there, not too far from the Up Slow, a rickety-rackety narrow gauge railway track (1' or 15", I'd guess, and little, or perhaps completely, disused), , presumably running for some probably short distance paralleling one of the standard gauge sidings, but then passing through a dilapidated metal gate to a reversing siding and then turning away eastwards towards and/or between a mix of open ground and small industrial buildings in that direction, (some areas may've been where a one or two had been demolished) but some of which, easily seen from the main line, lasted quite a few years longer IIRC, and the track may even have gone all the way to the glass works.

Funny that you should mention Stevie about a siding road all be it a narrow gauge track running near parallel to the Up slow line from somewhere south of the Up Goods to Up slow line connection near New Southgate box and running southwards for some distance because I kept thinking that I had a vague recollection of seeing a siding when I posted my previous post as well but I wasn't totally sure?. There was some track rationalisation around New Southgate station area in 1968 with the 'long crossover' at the north end of the station from the Down slow line through to the Up Goods line being removed and also the Up slow to Up fast line connection situated just passed the box was removed and plain lined and also the Down fast to Down slow line connection was also removed and plain lined so possibly that siding was lifted at the same time?.

Mickey

[Mickey]

" .... In pre-electrification days during the late 1960s & early 1970s on this 4-track section of the GN main line the signalling in that immediate area south of New Southgate station and before Wood Green tunnel was .... " -- " .... New Southgate's Up fast line starting signal a x3 aspect colour light signal that also acted as Wood Green Up Box No.2s colour light distant signal (and also Wood Green Up Box No.4s outer distant signal) and on the Up slow line standing opposite the Up fast line starting signal was New Southgate's Up slow line semaphore starting signal with Wood Green Up Box No.2 Up slow line distant signal beneath it mounted on a straight white painted metal tubular post. "

The predecessor to these two signals was a really interesting, possibly rare, structure, Mickey.
In one of the one-time "Railway Reflections" magazine, there was a fantastic double-page spread colour photo looking to the tunnel from the Down side cess just north of the Up Starting etc. signals, of an A4-hauled early 1960s Down Express approaching.
But the signals were really prominent to the fore in the photo's left-hand side : It was a two-bracketed 3-doll all-concrete configuration rooted in the six-foot between the two Up lines, with, in the centre, at middle-height of the three, the Up Slow Starter with Wood Green No.2 Box's Distant below (actually designated 'Outer Distant', as the yellow discs, one on each side, inside the tunnel's US bore's south end were the 'Inner Distants'); the left-hand bracket (with lowest doll) just had WG2's Up Slow-to-Goods 'splitting' Outer Distant; the right-bracket, higher than the left one(!), and (no surprise) with the highest doll, had the Up Fast (also mechanical) Starter with WG2's mech. Distant below.

Yes I have seen a distant shot of those signals on that gantry from a few photographs in the past Stevie but I never saw it in real life it was several years before my time, the first time that I travelled through New Southgate on a train was around June/July 1967 and I don't recall that gantry still being there at that time.

Mickey

[giner]

I thought I was imagining having seen that narrow gauge line, but thank you guys for rekindling these old grey cells. Very fuzzy, but I'm sure as I can be that the narrow gauge did run into the glass works yard. I can't recall ever having seen any form of rolling stock on it, though.