K3'S AND TENDERS

[borderreiver]

I find that Isinglass produces some tremendous drawings and I have over a dozen, including the tender drawings he produced for the A1/A10/A3, J39 and B1.

I recently ordered his drawings for the D49s and in the end I drew up a spreadsheet from that and Yeadon's to get some idea of what was going on with the D49 tenders.

I thought I had it figured out and then I went and bought "Steam Memories: 1950s-1960s North East Scrapyards", "Steam Memories: 1950s-1960s North East Scrapyards 2" and "Steam Memories: 1950s-1960s Locomotives Awaiting Disposal". Just to confound me, one shot is dated October 26 1959 showing No. 62722 ‘Huntingdonshire’ at Darlington Locomotive Works North Road scrap yard. It confounds me because the locomotive is clearly coupled to a stepped top/flared coping Group Standard 4200 gallon tender and is credited as being so in author David Dunn’s caption. According to Yeadon’s and other sources I expected it to have an ex-GCR 4000 gallon type B tender, which could have been one of the ten 4000 gallons stepped top ones rebuilt to 3800 gallon flush sided by Darlington in 1948/1949. The tender frames do not have the equal gaps and do not have oval tops, so it is definitely not a GCR type B. So, what happened? Did Dairycoates shed uncouple a good condition rebuilt ex-GCR tender (or an unrebuilt ex-GCR tender) from D49/1 62722 and exchange it for a worn out Group Standard 4200 gallon from a D49/2 before 60722 went to scrap? I doubt that it happened at Darlington works as D49/2s were not going through the works for repair or overhaul by October 1959. Or did it? Did someone at Darlington Works grab a serviceable ex-GCR 4000 tender off 62722 and send it elsewhere? How likely was it that they had a worn out Group Standard 4200 gallon one to hand, let alone tidily couple it up to 60722 before shunting it back in to the scrap road? I doubt that I'll get to the bottom of that one.

[65447]

The answer might be found in the relevant Yeadon's tender appendix, but the whisper on the wind is that Booklaw's given up on these essential companions to the locomotive registers...

[Andy W]

I think the answer to the query lies within volume 10 of Yeadon, pages 3 and 4. It looks as if 62722 had the tender from 62741 for its last year in traffic, this being a stepped top 4200 gallon type, originally built for a J38.

[Graeme Leary]

Greetings,
I have exactly the same question as Manna in the original post re this subject in May 2009 and trust
someone can categorically help me with number details for the LNER era for my particular model. It is a Bachmann, their number 32-276, described on the box as 'BR Lined Black Early Emblem 61932 with Group Standard Tender'. I'm hoping I can get away with just erasing the BR emblem and numbers and replace with LNER details. So, what would be an appropriate number/s for both the loco and tender, and are the 'gil sans' (is it called that?) letters correct as I have a fair number of these in transfer form. My model also has red lining on both the loco and tender and is this correct for LNER or were they unlined during that period? I notice another response to this said tenders can be a 'minefield and I'm happy with a bit of 'license' but as accurate as I can get would be much better.
Many thanks.
Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
I seem to remember that BR mixed traffic lining was red & cream/white, whereas LNER mixed traffic lining was a single red line.

Earlswood nob

[Graeme Leary]

Thanks for the comment Earlswood nob re the linings. But to further clarify (confuse??) I have recently obtained a copy of O S Nock's 'The Locomotives of the Sir Nigel Gresley' and there is a photo of K3 1125 in LNER Black livery with what appears to be DOUBLE lines around the boiler (see page 61 if you have this book). The photo is in black/white so cannot identify the lining colours but grateful for any further light you may be able to throw on this, and I guess the photo confirms 1125 is a correct number to replace my RTR Bachmann BR 61932 with.
Closer inspection of the Bachmann model has the boiler bands in double red but with the linings around the cab and along the boiler side 'walk' in red/white with this repeated on the tender - all very confusing as to 'correctness'. (Unlike the Nock photo which shows nothing, the model also has the letters R.A.B. at the bottom of the cab side and -I presume - shed plates on the smokebox side but these are easily removable if they're not correct for the LNER livery).
Anything you can help with is much appreciated.
Graeme Leary
New Zealand

[61962]

Hello Graham,

61932 was numbered 1339 when built in 1934 and retained that number till the 1946 renumbering when it became 1932. BR added 60000 to LNER engine numbers in 1948. The R.A.B on the cabside is actually R.A.8 - Route availability no 8. Route availability is determined by the railway underbridges and the locomotive axle configuration and weights, the higher the number the stronger the bridge and the heavier the locomotive in simple terms and locomotives and rolling stock are not allowed to traverse routes with a lower RA number than that for the vehicle. The highest number was 9 in steam days. The LNER did not put a RA number on its locomotives, this being a BR addition.

Lining for mixed traffic locos in LNER days was a single red line round cabside and tender panels and cylinder cladding and a line on each edge of the boiler bands. BR livery from 1948 onwards was similar for the boiler bands but the cylinders had two red lines at each end, whilst the cabside and tender panels had red, grey and cream lines around them. As these are difficult to reproduce in the smaller gauges they are often red and white on mass produced models.

Pre war LNER numbers and letters were the standard gold leaf with red and brown shading 12 inches high on the cabside and tender and the same 4 inches high with red and black shading on the buffer beam. There may also have been CLASS K3 in white 1.5 inch high lettering unshaded below the running number on the buffer beam.

I hope this clarifies the livery and wish you success in modifying your K3.

Eddie

[Graeme Leary]

Many thanks Eddie, couldn't have asked for any more information - just brilliant and I now know exactly where I'm headed with modifying this model.

Graeme