Top Gear

[stembok]

Flamingo: I think we may be at cross purposes here! The run by 60163 quoted in my previous post refers to 60163's inaugural public run on the 31st of January 2009 ,not her run for the purposes of the 'Top Gear' programme. The quoted load on that occasion was 13 cars of some 500 tons gross and of course the train ran into Newcastle Central. Even non-stop over 80 miles I consider that with such a load a required start to stop average of 65 m.p.h, with an imposed top speed of 75 m.p.h, is demanding and, as I pointed out ,way above the normal requirements in steam days. In its final summer of steam haulage in 1961 'The Elizabethan' non-stop hauled 10 cars of around 375 tons tare. In the early 1960s the Deltic hauled down Heart of Midlothian was given a start to stop York - Darlington time of 40 minutes, or 66 m.p.h average start to stop, as opposed to 60163's 65 m.p.h average speed to pass. Now obviously the A1 is not the equal of a Deltic, but the comparison is interesting and valid as on my runs on the 'Heart' the Deltic was often travelling at 85-90 m.p.h over the Vale of York.
Regarding the ability of an A1 to run through from Edinburgh to London. Certainly the coal supply would have been more critical than on an A4, but an A1 might just have made it with a coal consumption of around 50 lbs per mile based on 9 tons of coal. As I stated previously the non-stop engines habitually carried well in excess of this at the run's commencement so I'm sure there would not have been a problem. The Stanier Duchesses also with 50 sq ft of grate area at times ran through from Euston to Glasgow 401 miles and their tender capacity was only one ton more than an LNER Pacific and a somewhat more difficult route. I have seen one report of a Haymarket A1 working through between Edinburgh and London, on the 'Talisman' in early diesel days.
Finally, coal consumption at, say 90 m.p.h instead of 75 m.p.h on the York -Newcastle stretch with its continuous hard steaming would have required a significant increase in output of power and accordingly a higher coal consumption,. As I said you don't get " owt for nowt ", particularly on a steam engine.

[hq1hitchin]

i still think tornado did win,because they did not follow the old north rd as it then passed through every town and city on route as it is now motorway or dual carriageway most of the way apart from the streatch in northumberland that bypassed every place on route, if they had the jag would have been at least 2to3 hours late

Aah - but were there any speed limits on trunk roads in rural areas then, assuming you could dodge around the old AEC eight leggers trundling along at the mandatory 20 mph maximum?. A car like that must be able to do the ton plus, so with a suitable clown at the wheel.... Pity they didn't use a Morris 8, or something more typical. Never mind, twas good entertainment - like to see a car going from Euston to Glasgow now, legally racing one of those awful Beardie Rail Pendalinos....

[giner]

"Aah - but were there any speed limits on trunk roads in rural areas then"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi hq1,
If I remember correctly, the old 'white disc with a black diagonal' road sign meant 70mph, and there were good long stretches of it on the old A1. Mind you, pushing toward that rate of knots on my old Norton 16H would be setting my bones a-rattlin', what with girder forks an' all that.

[hq1hitchin]

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------


If I remember correctly, the old 'white disc with a black diagonal' road sign meant 70mph, and there were good long stretches of it on the old A1.

Sorry - must be the memory playing tricks - but I do remember that the M1 had no speed maximum speed limit when first opened - the sky was the limit. My dad would struggle to make 60 in the Morris 8 we had, certainly.

[Bill Bedford]

Sorry - must be the memory playing tricks - but I do remember that the M1 had no speed maximum speed limit when first opened - the sky was the limit. My dad would struggle to make 60 in the Morris 8 we had, certainly.

,,,,,and of course there are the stories of the executives cruising up the M1 at 90+ being shock to find themselve being overtaken by a Midland Red double decker.........

[hq1hitchin]

Sorry - must be the memory playing tricks - but I do remember that the M1 had no speed maximum speed limit when first opened - the sky was the limit. My dad would struggle to make 60 in the Morris 8 we had, certainly.

,,,,,and of course there are the stories of the executives cruising up the M1 at 90+ being shock to find themselve being overtaken by a Midland Red double decker.........

Blimey - I'd forgotten about them. I seem to recall seeing a newsreel showing meals being served on route - on a bus!
Bit off topic now, perhaps - did they only have such luxuries on the M1? Presume progress would have been too sedate on the A1 and I don't think Midland Red came across that part of England.