Micky wrote:The only steam hauled passenger trains that didn't require banking were the 4-6-2 Duchess class i believe in L.M.S./B.R. days.
I've seen film footage of Brits, Black 5s & 8Fs on goods & van train workings all taking on bankers at TEBAY for the climb to SHAP passed SCOUT GREEN & SHAP WELLS to SHAP SUMMIT although on the nearby S&C over the 15 miles climb from SETTLE JUNCTION to BLEA MOOR on the 'long drag' bankers weren't provided?.
It was not unknown for a Duchess to take a banker for Shap. The only that didn't on a regular basis was the Caledonian which was a limited load train running to basically the old Coronation Scot schedule.
Bankers were never provided on the Long Drag although the Midland made much provision for pilot engines. The shed at Hellifield was larger than it needed to be, and servicing facilities were provided at Garsdale as much for the pilots as for the Hawes branch engines. The pilot always came off at Ais Gill then ran light back to either Appleby or Hellifield. This practice was, I beleive, discontinued under the LMS who provided pilots between Carlisle and either Leeds or Skipton throughout. Bankers weren't considered due to the length of the climb.
If I ain't here, I'm in Bilston, scoffing decent chips at last!!!!
Heading north out of Carlisle, the terrain is pretty flat until the ground rises into Annandale on the Caley. The Sou'West was relatively gradual in its inclines, so banking wasn't really an issue.
On our own turf it was a different game with goods traffic over the Waverley generally requiring banking into the early 1960s from Newcastleton northbound and from Hawick southbound. Passenger loadings were generally on the lighter side and rarely required assistance in BR days. Piloting wasn't unknown in earlier times though.
Back to The Border City however and prior to the opening of the new yard at Kingmoor in '63, there was extensive trip working round the goods lines that by-passed Citadel and it was far from unknown to have J36s rubbing shoulders with ex-Midland 3Fs.
Probably no more interesting location in the entire island and even in these bland times you'll see a greater variety of activity at Carlisle than probably anywhere else in the country.
Dave.
"If they say it's good, we know it's bad; if they say it's bad, we know it's good." - Jimmy Reid.
York was another good spot, I'll grant you. Carlisle probably clinched it in those days for sheer variety of motive power though you'd have to wander about town to maximise your watching opportunities wit a lot of the esoteric stuff rumbling around the two cross-town goods routes!
Dave.
"If they say it's good, we know it's bad; if they say it's bad, we know it's good." - Jimmy Reid.
I live just up the hill from the old Kingmoor and I can only imagine it was a lot noisier fifty years ago on this spot of a night!
The railway never paused for reflection, let alone slept around Carlisle in those days!
Dave.
"If they say it's good, we know it's bad; if they say it's bad, we know it's good." - Jimmy Reid.
Coronach wrote:York was another good spot, I'll grant you. Carlisle probably clinched it in those days for sheer variety of motive power though you'd have to wander about town to maximise your watching opportunities wit a lot of the esoteric stuff rumbling around the two cross-town goods routes!
Dave.
Hey Dave CARLISLE was thee place
I believe 7 pre-grouping companies worked in & out of CARLISLE at onetime
Yes, I make it 7. Can this figure be beaten, I wonder, at any other location?
But while we're suggesting interesting locations I can't resist plugging my nomination, which I wrote about at some length a while back. (A PLACE BY THE RAILWAY, in this forum currently on p5, last posting 6/6/11). It's the footbridge on the GW main line near the West London overbridge at Old Oak carriage sidings. Plenty of activity, with all the Big Four companies represented. Footbridge now gone, I'm afraid.
