Returning to Grantham

[clem]

Hi Donovan, You're referring to the April 1956 edition of Trains Illustrated. I Remember Crief.... by R.D Stephen. Passenger traffic between Perth and Crief and between Comrie and Balquidder Junction had been withdrawn in November 1951 - the same month as the Louth-Bardney if I remember correctly. The article has a picture of a Caley 4-4-0 which has just crossed the viaduct at the lower end of Glen Ogle. There are also a couple if interesting pictures of Crief, with a junction distant signal with both arms in the off position, looking decidedly odd! The Perth and Gleneagles lines left Crief as single track lines in parallel so it was possible for 2 trains to depart in the same direction at the same time hence the signal.

I expect you remember well the C12s on station pilot and carriage shunting duties. By the time I was frequenting Grantham they had been replaced by N2s. They would often add coaches to some trains, a practice that these days seems strange.... yet sensible, particularly when you think of some of the overcrowding on todays 2-coach trains.

Looking forward to hearing some of your memories.

Clem

[Donovan]

Thanks for the prompt response Clem and for spelling Donovan correctly.Any idea how to change a username?
I do indeed remember the C12's.Always busying themselves around the station. Do I remember Jinties replacing them for a while?
My wife won't let me go under the stairs hunting my spotting books---too many Christmas presents for the family in the way --- so here goes from memory.
I am not sure which of my early railway recollections comes first timewise but I suspect it was visiting the loco via the crossbar of my dad's bike.To a young boy that array of engines spreading in front of the old sheds was just mindblowing. The noise and the steam of engines coming off the angle or shaping up for a northbound change are still etched in my mind over sixty years after the event.Did I really see A1 SEA EAGLE on the first visit or was it later?
About this time our friends and family holidays revolved about weekly runabout tickets to Skegness and Mablethorpe.From memory at about 7-30 in the morning the respective trains would be in platforms 1 and 4 both headed by B12's-- 61554 and 5 ring a bell.It was always sunny!!!! and always exciting.No return memories--I was always fast asleep.
Now for the Donovan connection.For much of my spotting time Donovan was a Grantham engine but more importantly it was at the head the school train trip to London immediately after the Coronation in 1953.The nameplate as it came past the platform is clearly remembered as is the nameplate of the engine on our return-- 60149 AMADIS .
My walk up the length of platform 3 to view this big green machine was the first of many such walks over the coming years and these will be the subject of future memories in due course.

[61070]

Hello Donovan - a very warm welcome and thanks for sharing some of your recollections already. The walk up to see the engine, either before departure or upon arrival, was something we always seemed to do in those days - and not just those interested in railways, as I recall.

Your experience of Grantham goes back a good few years before mine, when there was even more variety in services and operations. There are several 'correspondents' to this thread who were around in the 1950s, however. We certainly look forward to hearing what your spotting notes/books reveal - both from memory and once that under-stair cupboard can be safely explored!

I have two photos of No.60047 taken by my Dad. In fact they are already posted on this forum - though not on this thread, so you may not yet have seen them:
download/file.php?id=2605
download/file.php?id=4061

There's also a picture of 60047 on a rather unusual working at Grantham in the Science & Society Picture Library here: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/resu ... e=10443415 . The loco's identity's not evident from the thumbnail, nor is it mentioned in the caption; I bought a large sized print and was able to make the identification from that.

By the way there are several other threads you might find of interest if you haven't already discovered them (and if/when you have a few spare moments/hours!!), such as:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2322
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3620
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3466
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9076

I think a change/correction of user name has to be requested by contacting the Administrator, Richard Marsden, by private message (pm).

[clem]

The jinties were an interesting, if short era. I believe they came via the Peterborough Spital Bridge (Midland shed), then to New England and then they were passed on to Grantham. A strange one that.I cannot imagine GN and LNER enginemen taking to them, being developed from a Midland design - the old enemy. I'm not sure where they moved on to but I think with a bit of reading I should get to the bottom of it....
I don't know how to change your user name, I'm still pretty new on this forum, joining at the end of November. I have found this thread particularly interesting and some of the photos are sublime.

Hi 61070, when I've got a bit of time, I'll check out the other threads you've left the links for. They also look very interesting. I certainly remember the Type 3 D65xxs on the cement train and of course the O2s and WDs on the iron ore trains from High Dyke.

Cheers for now

Clem

[workev]

Hi folks,
May I introduce myself?I was born in 1945 and bought up initially in Inner Street, a 1/4 mile from Grantham Railway Station.My first school was Spitalgate Infants,even closer and I was an avid trainspotter from 1953 to 1961.
I am a civil engineer by profession,plan to 'slow down' in 2014 and am determined finally to find time to contribute to this amazing thread that I have read through twice since this time last Christmas and have thoroughly enjoyed.
Somewhere in the house I know that I have my last Combined Volume in pinky red with a 'semi' on the front cover and there just might be my old shedbook.Here's hoping!
What can I bring to the party?Well many hours spent on the station or the 'loco' or Springfield Road bridge or Barkston waiting for the trial engine for a start.Dim memories of unusual engines at Grantham itself including Brits,Sandies and even a Hunt.My family daytrips to Skeggy and Mablethorpe behind 35B's B12's.To answer an earlier query I know when you were likely to see a York B16?
I don't want to rely solely on memory so over this holiday I am determined to find my trainspotting books but while I am looking could somebody please answer a query?My major article on Grantham railways was always going to be called "I remember Grantham" a direct name crib of an article in my first orange covered Trains Illustrated.The original was "I remember Crieff"What date was this?

Richard C

Richard,

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your memories. I have sent you a PM, as I am particularly interested in your recollections of unusual engines seen at Grantham.

Ian

[clem]

Thanks for the prompt response Clem and for spelling Donovan correctly.Any idea how to change a username?
I do indeed remember the C12's.Always busying themselves around the station. Do I remember Jinties replacing them for a while?
My wife won't let me go under the stairs hunting my spotting books---too many Christmas presents for the family in the way --- so here goes from memory.
I am not sure which of my early railway recollections comes first timewise but I suspect it was visiting the loco via the crossbar of my dad's bike.To a young boy that array of engines spreading in front of the old sheds was just mindblowing. The noise and the steam of engines coming off the angle or shaping up for a northbound change are still etched in my mind over sixty years after the event.Did I really see A1 SEA EAGLE on the first visit or was it later?
About this time our friends and family holidays revolved about weekly runabout tickets to Skegness and Mablethorpe.From memory at about 7-30 in the morning the respective trains would be in platforms 1 and 4 both headed by B12's-- 61554 and 5 ring a bell.It was always sunny!!!! and always exciting.No return memories--I was always fast asleep.
Now for the Donovan connection.For much of my spotting time Donovan was a Grantham engine but more importantly it was at the head the school train trip to London immediately after the Coronation in 1953.The nameplate as it came past the platform is clearly remembered as is the nameplate of the engine on our return-- 60149 AMADIS .
My walk up the length of platform 3 to view this big green machine was the first of many such walks over the coming years and these will be the subject of future memories in due course.

Yes - just looked it up. Three jinties 47300, 47429 and 47458 came from New England in May 1956 in a straight swap for 1 J69 and 2 J52s. They stayed until the end of June 1957 when they returned south to Peterborough Spital Bridge in an indirect swap for 3 C12s from New England 67352, 67367 and 67397. Jinties seem so incongruous at Grantham though, don't they?
For my own interest I wonder if there is anyone who can remember the Grantham B12/3s working through to Derby Friargate. I think in a lot of cases they came off at Nottingham Victoria when on the Derby trains as I don't ever remember seeing them at Kimberley or Awsworth Junction. However there is one photo I know of, of 61554 at Derby Friargate so at least one made it through!

[strang steel]

I love the idea Hunt at Grantham. I wonder what service that arrived on?

In the dim and distant past I bought one of the Hornby models, but have to make up an excuse for a special train (such as a Boy Scout special from Knaresborough ) to my GN&GE based fictional station.

It would be nice to have a more "legitimate" working, even if it was ECML.

[Donovan]

To put you all out of your misery the Hunt was 62765 The Goathland and was standing in front of the 'loco' facing north one morning during school holidays in the mid fifties.This was the only time I ever saw a D49 at Grantham and suspect that it may have come off the early morning local from Doncaster. By this time my granny and grandad with whom I regularly stopped had moved to Victoria Street behind the main shed.The footpath between the angle and the allotments on the way to the loco became a regular treck.
One early afternoon using this path on the way to sunday school I thought my eyes were deceiving me.From a distance a lamppost was splitting an A3 in two.To the right of the post the curved nameplate was visible and yet to the left was a pair of blinkers.You've guessed it -- Humorist-- not in ex works condition and the only time I ever saw it.
By the way thanks for all the info guys.Who wants to tell my wife that I might be otherwise occupied for a while?
One final item before I am away to a regular famously boozy christmas eve party.---I mentioned Crieff in my first posting.I did go through Crieff in 1959 on the way to an army cadet camp at Cultybraggan nr Comrie Without any form of notes the only engines I can remember being hauled by were 60073 St Gatien-- Grantham to Newcastle;a pair of St Margarets B1's Waverley to Comrie;a Perth pairing of Black Five and Standard Class 5 for the return to Edinburgh and highlight of the lot 60027 Merlin to Newcastle. Merlin and 60034 Lord Faringdon are the only A4's that I can remember being hauled by at present but this reminiscing has a happy knack of releasing a whole lot of old but super memories,

Richard C

[workev]

In my research into operations in 1956/57, the 'Jintys' were used predominantly in the 4 shunting jobs that were required at Grantham. These were the station pilot/shunting job, the Up Goods, Down Goods and the afternoon Ambergate shunting job.

I assume that given the near constant movement of trains at Grantham then, the 3Fs, C12s and the J52 shared the shunting roles. My understanding is that the J6's were preferred for shunting engines around the Loco, because of the ease at which they could change between forward and reverse gears.

I thought that the B12s were used only occasionally on the Nottingham/Derby line, so any recollection of these would be interesting to read. They were know as "Swedes" by the Grantham men, (took me a while to work that one out!) and were drafted in to work the Lincoln/Boston/Skegness trains. When these became DMU workings, the B12s were put on the Parly trains to Peterborough and Doncaster, as well as the daily Parcels working to Boston that still ran in 1956/57.

Apparently they also worked the early morning Grantham-Newark-Grantham working that was added to the Nottingham-KX train at Grantham to form the 8:26 KX working. I have yet to see any pictures of a B12 on any of these workings so does anybody know of any out there in print?

Ian

[giner]

Lovely stories, Donovan. I only ever passed through Grantham on our forays north to do Doncaster and York sheds. But it's funny how you remember the locos 'on the front'. Usual motive power on a Sundays Only that used to take us on a 9/6d day return to Doncaster from Stevenage (Stevenage wasn't an express stop in those days) would be a V2. But I well remember a shiny 60047 turning up on one occasion. I swear it was 30 mph faster than the grubby regular.

[61070]

Peter Wilkinson, who took the photo of 64202, doesn't have the Internet so I'll try to print a copy of the photo of the model to send to him.
...I'll ask Peter what he remembers [about the J6 locos]

Hello Clem and all - Today a letter from Peter arrived with the following response for you about the J6 locos from his experience of them:

You asked me what the [Grantham] crews thought of the J6s. Well, I cannot recall anyone giving a J6 a bad name and, to my mind, they were an ideal loco for the work they were designed for – light passenger and goods. You could get a rough trip on any class of loco, large or small, but the J6s were pretty good at steaming. Somewhat basic in design and comfort, but they would do their job. When you mentioned the J6 a small incident came to mind. One summer’s evening my driver (I can’t remember who it was) and I were in the loco crew mess room when the Foreman came in and instructed us to take an old Grantham favourite, the D3 class No.2000 (later No.62000) to Ancaster Bank (on the Grantham-Sleaford line) to pull in a J6 which had failed. We went there light engine and, on arrival, found that the J6 had a broken eccentric rod. The fitters had dug the broken end out of the ballast and lashed it up with rope. On the return journey we had three fitters and a bicycle on the footplate as well as ourselves. Can you imagine trying to fire with that lot on board?!

On another occasion, in the Grantham ‘Loco’, a J6 got me in a spot of bother. My driver brought this one in for coal and water rather briskly, and we were coming up to some points, which I had to run up ahead to and ‘sit on’ to turn us onto another track [this means pulling over the point lever and holding it against a spring, to maintain the points against their normal setting while the engine passed over]. I had to get off the engine whilst travelling at a fair speed and run faster than the J6…but I wasn’t quick enough. As soon as I sat on the points I knew it was a disaster. There was a sickening crunch, and next thing the J6 was nose down ‘on the muck’ as we would say. Luckily the fitters were able to block it up with wood between the wheels and the track. With the J6 in reverse and full regulator she came back on the track again. You see, good to the end!

Such stories make the times and the characters really come to life - even after well over half a century has passed.

In his letter Peter also comments on the photo I sent him of your model, as follows:
The J6 model appears to be very life-like and I presume it is OO gauge? Do you know if it is a kit-build or scratch built? I don't think any model firms like Bachmann produce one - I think the nearest is the J39, so it will be a rare addition to the gentleman's layout.
If you wish to provide a response to this (by PM if you prefer) I'll gladly print it off and send/forward it to Peter along with this section of the thread, which I know he'll be delighted to receive.

[clem]

Hi 61070,
Many thanks for asking Peter for his views on J6s and posting his reply. What he said pretty well agreed with all I've heard of the J6s from enginemen over the years. That they were good steamers, more than capable of what was required of them and generally well liked. His memories are particularly vivid and great to hear. Please thank him for taking the time to reply. It was interesting to hear that he fired Grantham's D3 2000 (4075) which was rebuilt with a side-window cab and lined out for inspection saloon work amongst other duties. I have several photos of her, one in colour from a colour-rail slide. I've heard stories that she was, in contrast to the J6s, not a very good steamer.


Please thank Peter also for being so kind with regard to the model. It is in fact EM gauge (same scale as OO but with a wider gauge to more closely resemble the scale gauge). It is made from a Nucast whitemetal kit with a scratch-built chassis. I have built 3 J6s so far with a fourth in progress. Here's a couple of shots of the two in BR livery that I've done. I've also done one in LNER livery for my brother. The other J6 pictured here, 64215 was another Colwick engine. It is in fact sitting on a P4 chassis (P4 is yet another even more accurate to scale variation of the gauge) which was built for another layout now dismantled. It is waiting for a new EM gauge chassis to allow it to run on my present layout. It is perched a bit precariously on the slightly narrower EM gauge to pose for the photo! The J6 in progress (not pictured) is another Colwick engine and will be 64269 when finished. It may be some time before it is finished as I'm concentrating my energies on building the layout at the moment as can be seen from the part built track in the background. I have other J6 kits bought over the years for building - not sure whether I'll live long enough to build all the kits I have, unbuilt However, given time, one will be built as one of the earlier 521 series - in fact as 64178 a Grantham engine. If you've not guessed it already, I like J6s!


Best Wishes and Happy New Year!

Clem

[strang steel]

Very nice models. Very nice models, indeed.

There was something about the J6s that made them look attractive, therefore I can understand your love of them. Sadly, for me, by the time I was old enough for some serious trainspotting, nearly all of them had been withdrawn.

[ROY@34F]

I too remember,with affection,the J6's.I was cleaning at Grantham the last year or so of them.Indeed,I passed out for firing on one,with Inspector Bill Buxton of New England,and a Colwick Driver;his fireman riding "on the cushions"of course.I fired from Grantham to Netherfield,where Bill and I got off,as it was the limit of the G.N.section for Bill. I don't recall being on the road with a J6 again,but I remember shunting the shed with one;ideal for that with their lever reverser.
3 months after passing out I went on loan to KX top shed for 2 years,'till Dec.'60,and the J6's had gone by then,but I enjoyed my brief experience of them.
I too,have built a kit of one.I think it was a Connoseure(spelling!!) kit,now marketed by London Road Models (John Redrup) ,and etched brass,which of course gives nice fine edges to footplates etc.although Phills white metal one looks super,I have to say.I can't provide a photo,as I'm not capable of "re-sizing"enough!
Regards,Roy .

[ROY@34F]

Sorry CLEM , I refered to you as PHILL in my previous post.
Roy.