LNER Garter Blue Discussion

[S.A.C. Martin]

From your own thread Mick:

ArthurK is quite right about the A4 colour. Precision is the best match, but I personally think that this is correct only for a 4mm model! Just as an aside, the original A4 Garter Blue was exactly the same shade as used by Bugatti for the French racing team that being their National colour - it was HNG's tribute to Ettoire who helped him with the airflow experiments.

[Tom F]

This one looks almost like a Turqouise shade even more variation

http://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-vall ... 2769148804

With respect Mick, I cannot see the "turquoise" you're talking about? If anything it looks very similar to the shade I've used, perhaps even lighter than that I've used.

Lovely shot though, a nice reminder of what the A4s looked like when a bit work worn.

Oh heck Mick.... red backed nameplate too!

This is a 1939 photos, as class allocation fitted...I'll stick with black backed for my 4466 and tell myself it hadn't happened yet in 1938.

[S.A.C. Martin]

This one looks almost like a Turqouise shade even more variation

http://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-vall ... 2769148804

With respect Mick, I cannot see the "turquoise" you're talking about? If anything it looks very similar to the shade I've used, perhaps even lighter than that I've used.

Lovely shot though, a nice reminder of what the A4s looked like when a bit work worn.

Oh heck Mick.... red backed nameplate too!

This is a 1939 photos, as class allocation fitted...I'll stick with black backed for my 4466 and tell myself it hadn't happened yet in 1938.

Do you know, I missed that until you posted that and had to double back. Is it just me or does the nameplate look a much darker red under the dirt than the red of the parabolic curve…? I remember reading somewhere the nameplates may have been coloured to match the wheel sets but alas can't find the source.

[Tom F]

I think I read that too somewhere, that they were actually crimson rather than red.
That's two birdname A4s I've now red that had redbacked plates, but whether in 1938...I'm not sure, Herring Gull has had one overhaul since being built in that photo.

[S.A.C. Martin]

I think I read that too somewhere, that they were actually crimson rather than red.
That's two birdname A4s I've now red that had redbacked plates, but whether in 1938...I'm not sure, Herring Gull has had one overhaul since being built in that photo.

Now the question - brass or stainless steel? My intuition tells me it should be brass because it's not one of the special embellished A4s but there again…can we really tell the material with that photograph?

[mick b]

From your own thread Mick:

ArthurK is quite right about the A4 colour. Precision is the best match, but I personally think that this is correct only for a 4mm model! Just as an aside, the original A4 Garter Blue was exactly the same shade as used by Bugatti for the French racing team that being their National colour - it was HNG's tribute to Ettoire who helped him with the airflow experiments.

I agree Precision maybe the best match , no idea what the comment re 4mm actually means though? Railmatch is the nearest to the current Hornby shade. Railmatch is paler than Precision as said earlier. If ?? Simons is the right shade well done

Red nameplates are a minefield. never read any comment re shade. I believe only the Coronation and other "special" A4's had Chrome embellishments.

[60800]

Probably a tad too late in the day now, but shouldn't the garter blue discussion really be moved to a new thread? It has taken over somewhat

[Saint Johnstoun]

I am moving the posts here from Great British Locomotive Collection Topic.

[2512silverfox]

A final word re Garter Blue. It was my posting elsewhere which started the Bugatti connection and the provenance for that story was the Gresley family. I think I would prefer to believe them!

[Saint Johnstoun]

Whilst there may well be a Bugatti connection the fact that the colour was called Garter Blue maintains the link with the Coronation and the Order of the Garter. It would be interesting to know what Bugatti called their blue?

At the end of the day blue was chosen, and both ideas may have been responsible for the final result!

[Atlantic 3279]

I'm rather relieved to say that having agonised a great deal at one time about the true shade that Doncaster green ought to be, I have subsequently become much more relaxed and tolerant on the subject of paint shades for models. Matching colours for partial repaints is hard enough, so I'm glad to spare myself the additional agony of wondering whether the shade to which I am trying to match is dead-on in the first place. If it is "acceptable" and applied well, then I'm happy now to regard it genuinely as "near as it practically can be".

[mick b]

Whilst there may well be a Bugatti connection the fact that the colour was called Garter Blue maintains the link with the Coronation and the Order of the Garter. It would be interesting to know what Bugatti called their blue?
!

Perhaps French Racing Blue, it was this kind of colour in the 1920's/30's

[2002EarlMarischal]

Perhaps French Racing Blue, it was this kind of colour in the 1920's/30's

I popped into the Barry Potter Fair at Coventry yesterday. Coincidentally, there was a book stall, and one of the books for sale was entitled "French Racing Blue", it covered the Bugatti days amongst its pages.

Clearly "French Racing Blue" would not have gone down well as the official name for the colour the LNER painted its flagship locos!

Perhaps it was as well a known name in the 1930s as BRG (British Racing Green)?

I would be quite happy to believe that Gresley admired the Bugatti connection, thought the colour looked good, and that the LNER saw that a similar shade was not out of keeping with the "royal" theme. As for a name for the colour, "Garter Blue" worked fine and had chivalrous connections.

[greenglade]

I agree Precision maybe the best match , no idea what the comment re 4mm actually means though? Railmatch is the nearest to the current Hornby shade. Railmatch is paler than Precision as said earlier. If ?? Simons is the right shade well done

Red nameplates are a minefield. never read any comment re shade. I believe only the Coronation and other "special" A4's had Chrome embellishments.

hi Mick... I think you'll find that the comment regarding 4mm is due to the fact that the smaller the scale the more the shade needs toning down to be an exact match to the human eye, for example to use a sample of paint used to paint a full size prototype would be wrong, the colour would always look too dark, too much colour. Using a lighter shade of a given colour on models is a well known trick in making models used in films impossible to tell that they are not the real thing. That and correct lighting are just as important as building an accurately dimensioned miniature.

Regards

Pete

[mick b]

Thanks for the info