Great British Locomotives Magazine

[James Harrison]

I noticed there is a little corner shop not too far from my home which sells the magazine. Hopefully they'll still be stocking it when Butler Henderson is done (I suspect that week my wallet will take a pounding!)

[60800]

For anyone else intending on removing the deflectors on the A3 and hooking the streamlined non-corridor A4 tender behind it, it appears your only options are 60046, 60084, 60095 and 60103.

[S.A.C. Martin]

A4 conversion updates

One 4472 GBL tender in the early stages of converting to a garter blue A4 tender…

…and one GBL Mallard tender in the later stages of being converted:

[2002EarlMarischal]

I am intrigued with your unfolding proposals with regard to "Garter Blue" and the "Bugatti Blue" that you have had specially mixed.

I was aware that Bugatti provided the inspiration for the A4 shape, but not that there was a colour connection too. I have not come across that suggestion before, and wonder whether that would have been too much of a copy of another "brand"? The LNER clearly wanted to be unique.

Can the NRM and all the others you mention have got Garter Blue so wrong?

I will be following your progress with great interest Simon.

[mick b]

A typical lovely 1930's Bugatti

http://www.williamianson.com/cars-for-s ... .php?id=55


hard to tell from pictures but Simons Blue appears much too pale IMHO

[2002EarlMarischal]

A typical lovely 1930's Bugatti

http://www.williamianson.com/cars-for-s ... .php?id=55


hard to tell from pictures but Simons Blue appears much too pale IMHO

That car is gorgeous! Parked next to your fence Mick?

[mick b]

A typical lovely 1930's Bugatti

http://www.williamianson.com/cars-for-s ... .php?id=55


hard to tell from pictures but Simons Blue appears much too pale IMHO

That car is gorgeous! Parked next to your fence Mick?

[S.A.C. Martin]

A typical lovely 1930's Bugatti

http://www.williamianson.com/cars-for-s ... .php?id=55

hard to tell from pictures but Simons Blue appears much too pale IMHO

Wait until you see it finished Mick. The photographs don't give a fair reflection of the colour. I do think we've been so used to the extremely dark livery on Hornby's models and on the preserved fleet that we have overlooked the many colour slides and evidence available to us.

When I first painted it on the tender I thought it looked too pale too but further painting on the body shell in particular has allayed my own fears.

Once the model is finished I'll put up a few pictures and you can all make your minds up on it.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Can the NRM and all the others you mention have got Garter Blue so wrong?

I will be following your progress with great interest Simon.

Not so much that it is "wrong" but differently interpreted. When they were restoring DoC at Shildon, they uncovered a layer of garter blue paint and that was much, much lighter than any of the shades on the Hornby models I've seen or indeed on other manufacturers.

There have been several suggestions by different authors that the blue shade was chosen by Gresley as a sort of tribute to Bugatti - whether this is true or not is up for debate however I do know that Bugatti blue had several variants over a number of years and the one most likely available to the LNER as a shade was that used in the 30s on the race cars.

For me, the garter blue seen in books and colour slides has always had one thing about it that many people have overlooked - in direct sunshine it appears extremely light, and even in shadow B&W photographs of A4s show the colour to be much lighter than that applied to the A4s in preservation or to models made recently.

I am confident after weathering - which is another reason for using this shade, the blue of the time is likely to have faded and become lighter itself - that the colour I've picked will look the part. It may not suit other's tastes but it looks right to me. Certainly more "right" than Hornby's dark blue.

[2002EarlMarischal]

I take your point about some of the black and white photographs. Do the rare colour photos from the pre-war period also suggest a lighter shade? I can't say I've seen many.

The other question I have is whether there has been any criticism of the modern interpretation of garter blue from people alive in the mid to late 1930s or even during the immediate post-war period.

Whilst sadly those old enough to clearly remember those times are reducing in number, they may have commented during the earlier years of the preservation era?

I'm really looking forward to seeing your finished models Simon. Good luck!

[Tom F]

I was told by Lawrie Loveless, to not trust B&W photos.
GB appears lighter in B&W due to the processing/developing of the photographs at the time.

I think Bittern's current livery is pretty close to the livery as it was.

[S.A.C. Martin]

That's a new one on me Tom. We've been discussing the garter blue shade for months and you have never mentioned that piece of information. What part of the processing of the B&W photographs - of which there are many showing extremely light shades of blue - isn't to be trusted?

Earl, there was plenty of criticism of Mallard's paint scheme until it was recently repainted for the great gathering. Bittern's shade is much better as Tom says but I don't think it looks quite like any of the colour slides I have seen - still dark in my opinion.

[Tom F]

That's a new one on me Tom. We've been discussing the garter blue shade for months and you have never mentioned that piece of information. What part of the processing of the B&W photographs - of which there are many showing extremely light shades of blue - isn't to be trusted?

Earl, there was plenty of criticism of Mallard's paint scheme until it was recently repainted for the great gathering. Bittern's shade is much better as Tom says but I don't think it looks quite like any of the colour slides I have seen - still dark in my opinion.

Apologies I should have, it had been at the back of my mind and seeing you mention B&W photos it came to my mind.

Lawrie stated it's down to nature of photography at the time. Lets not forget red is very difficult to show in older film. I'm not photographer so do not know the exact details. I agree with you that Garter Blue is generally shown as too dark, although I think with Hornby GB, you can get a good colour with some work.

Lets not forget Simon that when we normally chat...it's when I'm shattered after work!

[Saint Johnstoun]

Black and White Photos - I has to do with the type of film. The old Orthochromatic films showed certain colours in a different way to the more modern Panchromatic ones. Also, it depends on the processing! As you know, nowadays black and white photos can be manipulated on a computer, density and contrast altered.

And what were the light conditions when the photo was taken? Sunlight, shade, dusk etc?

The same is true of colour films. The different types of slide film used from the old Dufaycolour through Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Ilfacolour, Agfacolour etc. all portray colour slightly differently, and colour print film too!

The eye is also deceptive as different people see different colours in a different way, plus that fact that a lot of folks are partially or completely red/green colour blind.

I think the jury will be out on this one for eternity!

[S.A.C. Martin]

Well, I'll finish my prototypes as planned and the jury can decide this one. It's been a long process and I've at least been brave enough to put my head above the parapet to give my view and my take on it (constructive criticism accepted).

The one thing I know is right about the colour - it definitely is a close match for the 1930s Bugatti race cars as it was based on a sample of original paint, painted out as a swatch for me by a Bugatti enthusiast I've spoken with and discussed at length.

Anyhow I'll let you chaps get on with posting your modelling using these body shells. I've got to fit some handrails in any event today.