Computer Coloured Monochrome

[Darwin4975]

Adding colour to digital scans of b/w negatives is the only way possible to recreate scenes that predate colour photography. The magnificent semaphore signals at Kings Cross station were replaced by colour lights sometime after 1931 but before 1934 (can anyone supply the exact date?) -and therefore don't feature even on the earliest colour photos.


These attractive GN somersaults didn't last long enough to give the road to Gresley's A4s but it was a different story for his earlier pacifics. In this picture a scotch express (leading carriage bound for Glasgow Queen St.) sets off with A1 No 2557 Blair Athol in charge and a race ensues with N7 No 473 for the entrance to gasworks tunnel. The date is between 1925 when the A1 was built and 1928 when the number was removed from tender to cabside. The engine is in original condition, still with the short travel valves which weren't altered to long travel until 1931. The photographer did very well to avoid the gantry upright obscuring either locomotive chimney or nameplate -required perfect timing of shutter release.

If any members of the forum possess old negatives worthy of the treatment and would like to see them in colour, please contact me.

[JASd17]

My use of the word 'cartoon' is valid, as far as I can see. I think of painters such as M. Buonarrotti.

I stick by this reference. I think it is appropriate.

There is no subtle approach in your 'picture' of 2557, indeed most of it is still black and white. Have you even thought about how teak might be represented in colour as presented here?

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder'

John

[2002EarlMarischal]

I really enjoy seeing your work Darwin4975 - thanks again for sharing.

I have no idea why it should be, but "half closing" my eyes, seems to help bring these images, and indeed some models/layouts to life in my imagination, something a black and white image can never do.

Well done!

[Darwin4975]

How very true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having different views is the inevitable consequence of our individuality. My skin is well thick enough to take the odd barb. All I would ask is that detractors get their own facts perfectly correct before requiring perfection in others, as M. Buonarroti had just one 't' in his surname. I imagine that the great Michelangelo would also have preferred not to have the term 'cartoon' associated with his work.

Replying to the comment: Have you even thought about how teak might be represented in colour as presented here?

The teak finish of LNER coaching stock is well known to have been variable. The last photograph in the LNER section of The Big Four in Colour taken at Kings Cross provides a good example. Here, different panels show shade variation.
Density differences on the original b/w negative show up very well as light and dark shade of the applied colour and would give exactly the same effect. Whether the particular brown chosen is correct, is a different issue and one way to approach this would be to scan the colour transparency, then sample the teak brown when selecting the artificial colour to be used. .....Of course this depends on whether the colours shown by the 1939 transparency are reliable.

I do what I do to please myself in imagining how the scene may have looked. There are no guarantees. If it pleases others too that is a bonus but It just isn't possible to cater for all tastes. Those who find such images unsatisfying can always look elsewhere.

[JASd17]

Point taken about Michelangelo.

I don't recall asking for perfection.

John

[strang steel]

How very true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having different views is the inevitable consequence of our individuality. My skin is well thick enough to take the odd barb. All I would ask is that detractors get their own facts perfectly correct before requiring perfection in others, as M. Buonarroti had just one 't' in his surname. I imagine that the great Michelangelo would also have preferred not to have the term 'cartoon' associated with his work.

Replying to the comment: Have you even thought about how teak might be represented in colour as presented here?

The teak finish of LNER coaching stock is well known to have been variable. The last photograph in the LNER section of The Big Four in Colour taken at Kings Cross provides a good example. Here, different panels show shade variation.
Density differences on the original b/w negative show up very well as light and dark shade of the applied colour and would give exactly the same effect. Whether the particular brown chosen is correct, is a different issue and one way to approach this would be to scan the colour transparency, then sample the teak brown when selecting the artificial colour to be used. .....Of course this depends on whether the colours shown by the 1939 transparency are reliable.

I do what I do to please myself in imagining how the scene may have looked. There are no guarantees. If it pleases others too that is a bonus but It just isn't possible to cater for all tastes. Those who find such images unsatisfying can always look elsewhere.

Exactly. I don't think anyone is being forced to look at your images.

I find that it brings photographs to life. I have never been a fan of b/w images, however dramatic the tweaks during processing can make them. Colour always seems to be much more inspirational to my imagination.

I cannot go back in time to see how things looked pre-WW2, although I could ask my 90 year old father who witnessed these things as a teenager; but I doubt that he would be able to produce any more reliable judgements on the appearance of varnished teak in varying light conditions.

So, I am grateful for these glimpses into what may be 80 or 90% correct, if not a perfect representation.

Thanks very much for all your efforts so far.

[mick b]

How very true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having different views is the inevitable consequence of our individuality. My skin is well thick enough to take the odd barb. All I would ask is that detractors get their own facts perfectly correct before requiring perfection in others, as M. Buonarroti had just one 't' in his surname. I imagine that the great Michelangelo would also have preferred not to have the term 'cartoon' associated with his work.

Replying to the comment: Have you even thought about how teak might be represented in colour as presented here?

The teak finish of LNER coaching stock is well known to have been variable. The last photograph in the LNER section of The Big Four in Colour taken at Kings Cross provides a good example. Here, different panels show shade variation.
Density differences on the original b/w negative show up very well as light and dark shade of the applied colour and would give exactly the same effect. Whether the particular brown chosen is correct, is a different issue and one way to approach this would be to scan the colour transparency, then sample the teak brown when selecting the artificial colour to be used. .....Of course this depends on whether the colours shown by the 1939 transparency are reliable.

I do what I do to please myself in imagining how the scene may have looked. There are no guarantees. If it pleases others too that is a bonus but It just isn't possible to cater for all tastes. Those who find such images unsatisfying can always look elsewhere.

Exactly. I don't think anyone is being forced to look at your images.

I find that it brings photographs to life. I have never been a fan of b/w images, however dramatic the tweaks during processing can make them. Colour always seems to be much more inspirational to my imagination.

I cannot go back in time to see how things looked pre-WW2, although I could ask my 90 year old father who witnessed these things as a teenager; but I doubt that he would be able to produce any more reliable judgements on the appearance of varnished teak in varying light conditions.

So, I am grateful for these glimpses into what may be 80 or 90% correct, if not a perfect representation.

Thanks very much for all your efforts so far.

Ditto to above post ,excellent work

[Atlantic 3279]

There might be a case for suggesting that the colour of the teak ought not to be so dark and drab, the dark appearance in the monochrome image being (like the signal faces) and artefact owing to the insensitivity of the film emulsion to the red component of the colours.

[strang steel]

One thing that intrigues me. The leading carriage has a headboard with a name that finishes in 'street'.

I wonder what train this could be?

[Darwin4975]

I imagine that Glasgow Queen Street is where the first coach was going to, and easily removable at Waverley to make the onward trip. Regarding the darkness of the coach finish and the red signal arms, I agree in principle with this comment as the film was almost certainly orthochromatic (being used in the 1920s) which was very sensitive to reds and browns -hence would show them up strongly. The panchromatic film which replaced it was the exact opposite in sensitivity.

[StevieG]

On the 'like' and 'dislike' front, I think it's a matter of taste, and choices :
- whether or not one likes the results of 'Darwin's efforts
- whether or not, having seen some of 'Darwin's results, one decides to keep viewing further instances of such images
- whether or not one keeps one's opinion(s) to oneself
- if making one's opinion(s) known, how it(they) is(are) couched - ('It's a free country')
- whether one decides to keep one's reaction to the opinion(s) of others to oneself
- if making one's reaction known, how it is couched - ('It's a free country')
- whether or not to react to the reaction of others;
etc., etc.

Personally, I like the coloured versions. And, even if I didn't, I feel sure I'd appreciate the time taken in working at the technique to produce the images that we've been allowed to see, and admire 'Darwin's commitment to striving for results which are 'right'.

Meanwhile : 'Dating the King's Cross photo': The 'new' Power Box was commissioned in 1932, and according to the British Power Signalling Register (by Andrew Overton) this was on the 03rd October.

For what it's worth, my reading of the signals seen in the photo would mean that the train is going from what was designated 'C Route' by the time of the 1932 signalling, (and so, most probably originating from Platform 10) forward to Down Main No.2 (in the western bore of Gasworks Tunnel).

[strang steel]

I imagine that Glasgow Queen Street is where the first coach was going to, and easily removable at Waverley to make the onward trip.

Do you know, I sat here for an hour or so trying to come up with a destination that ended in "street", but to no avail. Of course, Glasgow Queen Street.

Silly me. I think SWMBO is correct when she says I have lost most of my marbles.

[giner]

Not to add to your marble depletion SS, but Darwin did mention Glasgow Queen Street in his text accompanying the photos. S'okay, I had to go and check a couple of times.

[Ecclesweb]

The use of text to convey meaning and depict thoughts is an art, as is taking photographs. The resultant words can be considered blunt or black and white: grey, varying from black to white, with a greyscale, or coloured, depicting all of the depth and every shade of each word used.

Between the initial snap of the thought process and the words eventually appearing in print the very mechanism causes variation and/or distortion of that initial snap.

And so it is with photographs, the process between the initial snap and the result being viewed is variable causing the result, by default, to not deliver a verbatim image of what was observed.

I love the original photographs, it's the best that the technology of the day could produce. I also don't think that the purpose of colouring a black and white image is to somehow transform the first image to a perfect, coloured facsimile: more to endeavour to enhance the entirety of the original.

I am of the opinion that the images so enhanced are not perfect but deliver a magnificent result: what we should do is to look at both versions of the photograph, close our eyes, and impossibly try to imagine all of the associated sounds !

Are "Monochrome" sounds different to "Colour," or would sound become the common denominator ?

[strang steel]

Not to add to your marble depletion SS, but Darwin did mention Glasgow Queen Street in his text accompanying the photos. S'okay, I had to go and check a couple of times.

Goodness me, so he did.

I must have been so drawn to the photos, I never got around to reading the text.



I think I might get nurse to increase my medication.