Donovan wrote:
the ‘highlight’ of the day, a Northampton 2c’aussie’ or 8F on the Scunthorpe iron one turn. I don’t know how many were shedded there but it always seemed to be a ‘cop‘.
Richard C
WOW
As you might guess (and I suppose I should change my name to 1H was 2E was 2C) the locos you mention were our local ones. The 8Fs (we called them 'consols') were the subject of verbal abuse such as 'Crate!!!' and 'Scrap It!!' when they passed. Two that stayed around for a long time were '8147 (was that the Dublo model, or just illustrated in the H-D 'Book of Trains'?`) and '8680. The Dub Dees (as we called them) had been transferred away before I was old enough to identify them - I was still at the stage of 'it's a train'; the last 3 went to the 6 area in P4/57 in exchange for more 8Fs.
Now a 34F O2 coming through from Market Harbro' - that WOULD have been a day!
I have a couple of questions. On looking at the WTTs for Grantham, the only L/E movements between the Loco and High Dyke seem to be those based at Grantham. I assume that the Frodingham WDs that also worked trains would be serviced at 35B, indeed lots of photos show this to be the case. Does anybody have any idea what the turnarounds were time wise?
Secondly, a maybe a little bit more specific. In 1956 DMUs had taken over the Grantham-Lincoln, Boston services and some DMUs had 4-wheel vans containing parcels attached. In the Winter WTT for 1956/57 however, there was a 6.30am Grantham-Sleaford/Boston Parcels train which seems to have consisted of just one 6-wheel BZ. It returned to Grantham at about 7.30pm. Scouring the CWN for 1954/5 it appears that this is all this vehicle did. More interestingly the engine used worked L/E from Boston in the morning, to work the train.
In the evening there was a return trip between Boston and Grantham with Parcels, this time I think with a BG vehicle. How the BZ got back to Grantham I am not quite sure, as the CWN for 54/55 still had loco hauled traffic from Grantham-Lincoln/Boston.
Does anybody know what the loco's used by Boston were, I think it was a J6 or K2, but would be nice to know!
I have a couple of questions. On looking at the WTTs for Grantham, the only L/E movements between the Loco and High Dyke seem to be those based at Grantham. I assume that the Frodingham WDs that also worked trains would be serviced at 35B, indeed lots of photos show this to be the case. Does anybody have any idea what the turnarounds were time wise?
Ian,
You're correct in your assumption re. the Frod. austerities . Ie. "disposed of" in Grantham loco. and then after perhaps 8 hours or so "prepared" for the return home , working a stone train from Highdyke . I'm sure they were not "reconditioned" to return straight away . By that I mean turned , coaled and watered , fire cleaned ,ashpan and smokebox cleaned out , oiled up and prepared all in one go . That just did'nt happen , but what the return diagram's timings were exactly , I don't know .
Roy,
The current issue of BackTrack (March 2014; Vol.28 No.3) has a 3-page colour feature Visiting Grantham Shed in 1956 which includes some very nice and, so far as I'm aware, previously unpublished photos of B12/3, C12 and K2 locomotives (plus A3s, a B1 and a V2).
and a gathering together of the numerous contributions by 'ROY@34F' to this and other web forums into a compilation describing many facets of Grantham Loco in the period between 1957 and 1963. It includes the story of his two-year spell on loan to King's Cross Top Shed. http://returntograntham.wordpress.com/l ... oy-vinter/
Cracking reference pictures for anyone making a model of the place...
If you look closely, I believe you can see that the deck of the larger 70foot turntable (centre left) is not there and there appears to be some 'disturbance' in the centre of the pit. This 'fits' the year being 1950, ie when the foundations of this turntable collapsed - within a year, the distinctive turning triangle had been installed. Meanwhile, the older (50foot?) turntable still appears to be in use alongside the 'new' shed so perhaps it was only the larger locos that had to be sent to Barkston to be turned during this period?
Note also at least one A3 in early BR livery (apple green with 'British Railways' on the tender) and several Gresley NC twin sets in use for the local services.
Until I registered and was able to zoom in on the image I had no idea how high quality it was. I had downloaded one onto my hard drive, but that was far less detailed and pixellated straight away as I zoomed in, so I gave up; thinking they were all like that.
However, the actual website photos are far better quality. I can see an A4 and what looks like two A3s on shed, although they may be V2s, and possibly a B1 to the south of the station, although it could be an O2. What appears to be an A5 in the Nottingham platform with a train of 6 vehicles, two pairs of non-vestibule twins with a composite between them and a van on the end.
A C12? shunting a four coach train further down the yard, maybe a Lincoln train? There is a three carriage train in the down bay, with what appears to be a J class tender loco on the front. Maybe a Boston train (I am guessing here) and a loco on the up main which seems to be about to go and take over an up express, as it is blowing off vigorously and the fireman appears to be adding lots of coal, judging by the chimney smoke.
There are even more spare carriages in the sidings just to the SW of North Box, and a long line of cattle wagons over in the goods yard. Is that a white horse standing on its own in the yard just beyond the Yard Box?
There are two sets of the twin-compo-twin rakes with a van on the south end: the other is in a siding to the north of the MPD. Quite a few twins to the south as well, some of which are the compos with the twin lavs. Up to now I didn't think they went north of Peterborough on the ECML.
Nice pway rake with what look like a twin loaded with rail, some empty ballast wagons and a Howlden coach down to the south of the station as well.
That is a shunting horse in front of the maltings, I believe.
A really magnificent series of photos here - thanks very much for picking up on them. There are seven in total, ref. numbers eaw028681-7, taken consecutively in that order on 19 April 1950.
In eaw028685 you can trace virtually the entire railway layout of the Grantham area, from the Great North Road bridge at the south end to Peascliffe (ECML) and Gonerby (Nottingham line) Tunnels - including the branch from Barrowby Road junction to Ambergate Yard and the basin of the Grantham Canal. An amazing all-encompassing shot. (The only part of the layout not in view is the internal system of the Spittlegate Iron Works, reached through a separate arch at the north east end of the Great North Road bridge.)
...and in the first five pictures of the series a light engine can be followed along the up main line, from the crossover beyond Grantham North 'box in the first photo to just passing under the station footbridge in the fifth.
Browsing around Britain From The Air again I’ve found a few more shots taken on the same day (19/4/1950, a Wednesday) which show the branch to Ambergate Yard (in the background of their real subject, an engineering works which built cranes).
One of them may interest those with a coaching stock leaning as there’s what, to me, looks like a pretty ancient twin articulated set standing in the sidings (eaw028668 best, but it's also on eaw028666 - which also shows an 0-6-0 on the Yard shunt duty).
Another, eaw028664, shows the north end of the station with trains at platforms 3, 4 and 5 (the latter being the same two trains as appear in the photos mentioned earlier).
clem wrote:Hi - Yes Colwick men referred to the J6s as 'A' engines too. I think it referred to the GN power classification rather than whether an engine was superheated or not. J5s were also 'A's whilst J3s, J4s and J7s were 'B's if they had 170/175 lb. boiler pressure. The J3s, J4s and J7s had smaller boilers and different wheelbases to the J1, J2, J5 and J6 classes. The J7s with the lower 160 lb boiler pressure were 'C's whilst the J1s and J2s were 'E's.
Clem
Just to confuse things further.
The history of Colwick sheds and yards (Booklaw) states that the J6s were called A engines because they had a letter A stamped by the vacuum pipe.
Going back to the Britain from Above photos I think I can add a little more detail.
from EAW028682 and EAW028684.
Ok, the J6 (I think) in Platform 4 is on the 3.50pm to Lincoln (Twin(BT(6)CL(2-5),BCL(2-2)), the A5 is on the 3.55pm to Derby (Twin BT(6)-T(8), CL(3-4), Twin(T8)-BT(6) and BY) and the C12 station pilot is waiting to move the stock into Platform 5 for the 4.05pm to Boston (TwinBT(6)-CL(2-5), TwinCL(2-5)-BT(6)). I think the engine for the Boston train is either the B12(?) sitting at the front of the Loco exit (in front of what looks like an Apple Green A1) or the J6 sitting in the Down Goods line. Looking at the Carriage working Notice it states that on Wednesdays/Saturdays Excepted it had a 4w Parcels van on the back. So the fact that April 19 1950 was a Wednesday confirms the train I think! Note the second Twin must have been recently outshopped in new Teak Paint!
A J52 appears to be the Down Goods pilot.
I've been trying to identify the light engine moving along the Up Main, presumably to take over a KX express, but not sure whether it is an A3 or V2.
Note also on EAW028683 the collapsed turntable! I've been trying to identify the date for the turntable collapse, and as there appears to be no "table" I assume it happened a few weeks before. A little over a month later and the entire A4 allocation of Grantham (at this time it was 9 engines), moved away as the time taken to turn engines at Barkston proved too time consuming, especially with the Summer timetable approaching.
Working on the 1956/57 timetable its interesting to note the additional coaching stock necessary for the Lincoln/Boston trains, many of the rakes being stored in the carriage sidings adjacent to the exit from the Loco.
Ian
Last edited by workev on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
That is some great detective work, Ian. Excellent.
Do your carriage working notes give any details of summer weekend extras to Skegness and Mablethorpe? I know these tended to run on a Sunday, and maybe Saturday afternoon when most people had time off. I wondered if Grantham had any more excursion destinations that it served?
Cleethorpes may have been too far away for a day trip to be viable, although there were occasional specials from Nottingham, but from Grantham (unless they went via Boston) it would have meant reversal at Lincoln.
I know Boston and Bourne had excursions to Hunstanton, but that may have been a little too far for Grantham residents on a day trip.
The CWN was from September 1949 to June 1950, so no Summer workings. The Summer 1951 CWN shows that an addition two coaches were added to the morning Skegness train on a Saturday, along with others that may have been bolstered too, although I cannot see any.
In the early morning and late afternoon many of the Lincoln/Boston trains were augmented with parcels vans/coaches, in some cases with 3 vehicles. These were added to Grantham-KX parcels, northbound parcels trains and also onward trains to Nottingham and beyond as required.
I am working on the 1956/57 timetable, which although it has DMU's towards Lincoln/Boston, still had a myriad of parcels traffic added and removed at Grantham, as well as the GN/ECML trains.
I do know that specials were run from Grantham to the coast, but they tended to start in London and pick-up. Details of these were included in Special Notices. I am lucky to have some Notices for Easter/Christmas 1956 and others. They provide a great insight into the workings of specials, and additional trains.
I am writing a book about 24 hours in Grantham, and hopefully it will be a best seller! Its hard work, but I hope to post an extract on the R2G Blog before too long to give a flavour of what will be in it...
I mentioned the Grantham to Skegness/Mablethorpe summer SuO trains because I travelled on a few. I always assumed they originated at Grantham, as they stopped at all the local stations and were formed of a number of non-vestibule coaches with a K2 or Flying Pig on the front in the late50s/early 60s period.
Later, they were just 6 or 8-car DMU formations, but my memories are rather hazy from that period.
I do remember being denied drinks because there were no toilets in my early years, (although the journey was not that lengthy) and the doors to the compartments had leather straps to raise/lower the windows, which were a magnet for us kids to constantly fiddle around with, much to the adults' annoyance.
