The diesel era 1960s, 70s & 80s

[Mickey]

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[sandwhich]

I remember the block ender stabled overnight at Cuffley very well, during the winter of 63 their were diesel failures all over the place and on at least two occasions I was a fireman on a Class B1 steam loco on this stock that formed the 07 45 Cuffley to Broad Street. If I remember right during the late 60s there was some surplus diesel units transferred in to replace the quad arts and also replaced both this and the New Barnet train to save stabling at these locations overnight.

[Mickey]

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[StevieG]

" .... sidings that were connected to running lines were operated by either 2, 3, 4 or 5 lever gound frames at some locations. The single road siding at Cuffley for example was operated by a x2 lever ground frame a blue/brown release lever and a black points lever (i don't think that there was a exit ground position light at Cuffley but i could be wrong?) .... "

Can't say for when you're thinking of Micky, but those round the 'Hertford Loop' at places which had no directly box-operated points, although released from a signal box (unlike the 1950's-ish style GE lines installations which often weren't), also had control levers for their protecting levers (usually causing the said signals to be Semi-Autos rather than Controlled), and the station end Ground Frame at Cuffley, as well as working the Up Siding points, also originally controlled a Main/Main crossover (so that, with the other GF's crossovers, this still allowed for a train to be run-round, although on the Main lines rather than in the siding [whose north end access was severed in the resignalling] ).
So the station end GF would've then had about 7 levers (2 release backlocks, 3 main signal controls, 2 points, no shunt signals).
You may recall that, because of this type of release/signal control arrangement, the largest of these GFs was Grange Park, which had 11 levers IIRC.

[StevieG]

" .... If I remember right during the late 60s there was some surplus diesel units transferred in to replace the quad arts and also replaced both this and the New Barnet train to save stabling at these locations overnight. ... "

That might've been the period when the Derby 3-car units (which we knew as 'the Rolls Royces' because of their engine's manufacturer: Can't say what their allocated TOPS Class No. was; - 11x or 12x I think) were drafted in after being made surplus by electrification of the Eastern section's 'Lea Valley' route (Clapton Jn.- Cheshunt).

[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

" .... If I remember right during the late 60s there was some surplus diesel units transferred in to replace the quad arts and also replaced both this and the New Barnet train to save stabling at these locations overnight. ... "

That might've been the period when the Derby 3-car units (which we knew as 'the Rolls Royces' because of their engine's manufacturer: Can't say what their allocated TOPS Class No. was; - 11x or 12x I think) were drafted in after being made surplus by electrification of the Eastern section's 'Lea Valley' route (Clapton Jn.- Cheshunt).

Class 125s Stevie.

[Andy W]

The Rolls (cl.125) sets arrived in May 1969, about three years after the last quad art was used in traffic. They replaced some of the Mk 1 block ender sets but the introduction of the Rolls sets was anything but smooth and they were a bit of a troublesome beast throughout their time on the GN. We also had 4 BUT (cl.116) sets which, because of their first class, did the longer runs. They arrived on the KX scene in 1968, I think.

Going back to Gordon Hill bay, it was still in use in the 1979/80 timetable, albeit for one morning and one evening working only. I remember it being taken out of use shortly afterwards but nobody (probably for cost reasons) gave Hornsey a works order to disconnect the OHL so the wires stayed up for years afterwards.

[sandwhich]

Yes they were some 3 car Rolls Royce units that came from the Lea Valley, there were also some 3 car BUT units that came from I do not know where to replace some loco hauled stock on the Cambridge line. There was indeed a plan around 1966 to not only replace the quad art sets but to replace all of the non corridor stock on both the inner and outer suburban just leaving the Cambridge Buffets loco hauled, but it came to nothing because they could not get hold of enough suitable units. As we know the Rolls Royce units were withdrawn in late 76 with the loco hauled sets lasting until 1976-78 when the then GN suburban electrification was completed.

[StevieG]

Thanks for the supporting info. SS, Andy and sandwhich.

Micky, I think you deserve a full reply about ground frames, which I can't do right now, but hope to when I can; and as a separate topic I think.

[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

I received a book for Christmas, called London's East End Railways part 2, by D Brennand.

While this volume mainly concentrates on lines to the docks, it does have a chapter on Victoria Park to Poplar which has a number of photos of Victoria park signalboxes through the years.

It is a fascinating volume in its own right, with lots of photographs. There are even a couple of pictures of class 16 D8400 locos working trains, which are rare in themselves.

[Mickey]

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[D2100]

Had British Rail already lost interest in diesel locomotives of this type by the early 1970s and were already thinking about the APT and the HST power cars?.

Short answer to that is 'yes' - particularly with ever advancing speeds and schedules, the Modernisation Plan ethos of every class having a mixed traffic 'all things to all men' capability* had been shown to be flawed.

* With the honourable and obvious exception of the Deltics

Coming back to this:

. We also had 4 BUT (cl.116) sets which, because of their first class, did the longer runs. They arrived on the KX scene in 1968, I think..

Yes they were some 3 car Rolls Royce units that came from the Lea Valley, there were also some 3 car BUT units that came from I do not know where to replace some loco hauled stock on the Cambridge line. .

These had originally been WR sets but immediately before going to Fin Park, had been at Gosforth as part of the replacement of the Tyneside electrics.

[Mickey]

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