Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

[drmditch]

Thank you for the drawings. I haven't seen any Darlington drawings of the same details.

I understand that Leeds Forge constructed Fox bogies to order, using parts standard to the particular railway making the purchase, so the result may differ from railway to railway.

However, a depth of about 6" for the springs would about match the ex-NER photographs I mentioned. However, one of my references, (A re-print of Sidney Stones book 'Railway Carriages and Wagons' of 1903 published by Peter Kay as ISBN 899890) has a detail drawing at about 6.125mm (1/4") to the foot of an NER bogie carriage. This appears to show a different arrangement. The springs don't appear to be coil, and the depth would only be 3" or less.

Mr Stone pays thanks to Mr Wilson Worsdell for supplying the drawing of a 'new type of composite carriage', so it may be accurate!

Anyway, I think the next Fox bogie I construct will have a representation of these coil springs about 6" deep!

[jwealleans]

Fox bogies do differ from company to company - I remember when I was building GE coaches I was advised that the closest match were HR ones. I confess to never having put several side by side to see what the differences were.

[Dave]

Darlington drawings of possible fox bogies are
1491 of 1896 - carriage bogie pressed steel frames 8'-0" wb
1945 of 1896 - carriage bogie with pressed steel frames and timis springs.

I've not seen these yet, they are on my list to look at.

There is also a drawing 1128 of 1892 - 4 wheel carriage bogie 'Adlers Patent' 7'-6" wb with rolled fabricated sides, but I've never heard of this type before or seen as far as I know a picture.

[Atlantic 3279]

I'm glad somebody else answered that question about the springs as I hadn't the foggiest idea.

[Atlantic 3279]

Images for the recent castings.

1. Fox bogies with flash still in place, but a waft of primer applied to reveal details.

2. Fox bogie with flash quickly peeled, snapped and in places scraped away, plus wheels fitted and centre hole drilled out.

3. Cast clerestory roof in primer. Casting caused no difficulties, although I do need to remember to centre the core accurately within the LENGTH of the mould (the lateral position is easy) and make sure that the ends of the top pieces sit right down.

4. Same again showing cleared window apertures.

5. Cast clerestory loosely fitted to coach.

6 Ends with blanked windows. Typically, the nominally easiest piece to cast caused most difficulties, both of these first two offerings being slighly imperfect. The one on the left hasn't hardened fully due to my poor mixing of the resin (we can all enconter that problem you see Brian, it's not just for beginners), hence the paint has stayed shiny/soft/tacky too, and that on the right still hasn't captured all details of the fitting ridges and pips on the back surface. I reckon I've beaten these problems now.

7. Side view with roof, end and bogie fitted to coach.

[SAD Burdett]

The one-piece moulds have already produced first fruit:

Although I have posed the ducket to show that the spacing of the horizontal lower body beading matrches up with Hornby's old coaches, it does not of course fit "for real" with such a pronounced projection from the side. It must either be let-in, or filed down, and the van side also needs to be recessed.

Graeme,
Is the ducket available from your cast "parts lists"???
I was musing through some photo's over the weekend and it looks particularly similar to the duckets on the MSLR 6 wheelers [well near enough for me!!!,,, and what's the betting I can't find that pic again!! ]

Earlswood Nob and myself have both posted pics of Triang Clerestory butchery into 4 and 6 wheelers and on the original before attacking with a razor saw the GW duckets are almost insignificant in comparison,, and the installation of something more pronounced would add to the disguise considerably.

SAD

[drmditch]

I'm glad somebody else answered that question about the springs as I hadn't the foggiest idea.

Sorry to ask an NER question on your thread. Although I've just been looking through Mr Harris' book on GNR and ECJS stock looking closely at the bogies, (must find a better occupation for a Tuesday evening!) and it seems that the appearance of these springs differs not only between Doncaster and York, but even between York and York. Perhaps it varied according to the services and loads a vehicle was built for.

Your Howlden conversion is looking brilliant!

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
I think studying railway books is a much better way of spending tuesday evening than watching TV.
I was studying Historic Carriage Drawings myself.
Atlantic's GNR conversions are much needed to fill the GNR gap in pre-grouping carriages.
Earlswood nob

[Bill Bedford]

Your castings look good, as always. One question about the Fox Bogies, which compare well with the Coopercraft/Mailcoach ones I used for my ex-NER clerestory.
Both those and yours show the secondary(tertiary?) coil springs underneath the ends of the leaf springs. These are quite short in length on the models and in the Leeds Forge picture reproduced from 'The Locomotive Magazine' in NERA Express No 195.

However, all the pictures I've looked at of these bogies in service, and especially the article on the 49' Low Roof stock in BRJ Special NER Edition, show these coils as being considerably longer and the coils more visible. I did try to reproduce this, albeit crudely, on my model.

(Edited here - 'cos I can't tell up from down!)

As far as I can see, these springs will be under compression, so why should they appear longer?

The earliest photograph has to be about 1899/1900, so these springs were presumably as fitted new.
Was the original design to meant to use rubber, which was then replaced by coil springs?

The Fox bogies were built up from steel forgings made by the Leeds Forge Company. They only supplied the forgings. It was up to individual companies to fit out the bogies with their own detailing parts. So almost all the details that are important to modellers were specific to particular companies. There details would include, but are not limited to: primary spring length and number of plate, secondary springs and spring supports, bolster swing link arrangements and brake blocks.

In general the secondary springs were originally steel coils but they were replaced over time by rubber and steel washers.

[Atlantic 3279]

A mine of information as always Bill.

A couple of overdue images to show how that revised A2/3 cab moulding cleans up - simply removal of thin flash and a quick waft over with primer is all that's happened to this one. Some castings are cleaner than others, the lower rear corners can need a little filing to remove remnants of feeds/breathers.

If you remember earlier pictures it started out like this

From this master and mould

[drmditch]

In general the secondary springs were originally steel coils but they were replaced over time by rubber and steel washers.

Actually, in view of the source material mentioned above, I wonder if it was the other way round, on the NER at least.
(With apologies to Atlantic for using his thread - again!)

[2002EarlMarischal]

Castings are all terrific! I especially like the cab.

How about a Gresley A1 cab (LNER loading gauge) with the low (pre-bucket seat) cut-outs? This would bridge the gap between the Hornby early 1920s "Great Northern" style cab and the mid 1930s onwards version. Along with your tender bodies, this would further increase permutations for the A1/3.

If too fragile in resin, an etch of replacement GN tender coal rails would be another useful addition to the growing product range.

And before I get myself in too much trouble for adding to your workload(!), how about some Humorist/Coronach smokebox variations? Every bit as unique as the A1/1!

And how about an indicating shelter casting? That would be different!

And...

And....

And.....

[Atlantic 3279]

If I do that lot in the morning what shall I do in the afternoon Jim?

[marksouthcoast]

A new method of earning a living maybe.

[2002EarlMarischal]

If I do that lot in the morning what shall I do in the afternoon Jim?

The whole morning Graeme! I was thinking before breakfast!