E-Bay and PayPal commission on postage

[Autocar Publicity]

Somewhat old news now, from what I can gather, this was introduced in the summer. But what with one thing and another, as an occasional user, I've only just found out after checking my statements following a run of recent sales and having a "what's this?!" moment. The main cause for concern is that I never received any notification of the change. I knew E-Bay were changing the rules on photos, they advertised that alright but when it comes to increased fees, not to give us notice, smacks of deceit and evil intent. Or did I miss an e-mail? Mind you, it should have been four, as I have personal and business accounts for both...

Things change, but not to notify us is very concerning and I'm wondering if they could be in breach of contract law. At the very least it's a massive own goal in PR terms and I'm sure it will cost them business. I exchanged e-mails with a collector earlier on another matter and he was [still] spitting blood, even after 2/3 months. Like him, I've always kept prices down to a minimum myself, both as a private and trade seller, to cover the actual postage and cost of the box and wrapping. I've never charged for 'handling' or my trips to the Post Office. So to have to find out about this by accident is particularly aggravating and leaves me wondering how much I am out of pocket.

I'm also wondering that if E-Bay/PayPal are prepared to treat their customers with this much contempt, what's next? It strikes me as being very foolish, as with the rise of small, cheap card machines which plug into a smartphone, PayPal is no longer as vital to small businesses as it used to be - I was investigating that option before I heard about this and will definitely try and go down that route now. Sure, the loss of my business is hardly going to have the CEO worried, but times that by several million across the UK and the * might notice...

[strang steel]

I'm afraid that you have lost me already. What have they done to fees, exactly? As you may have guessed I buy far more than I sell, so I rarely encounter fees other than P&P.

[Autocar Publicity]

As you surmise, it's sellers not buyers who've been directly 'affected' under the changes.

Basically, when you sold items, you would be charged a listing fee (if you sold more than 100 items a month, so I've never paid this), a final value fee and a picture fee for the second and subsequent photos. If buyers paid using PayPal (most do) PP would take their commission as well on the sale price received by the seller. In both cases, post and packing were exempt from charges - unless you chose to provide free P&P. Generally, I've sold locos from my friend's collection of kit-built engines and books, so fairly heavy and/or valuable items and this hasn't been a realistic option. Fine, no problem so far...

Since sometime this summer, both EBay and PP have been levying their commissions on postage as well. This has angered me because:

• P&P is an expense to me and I do not make any money on it - the Inland Revenue allow postage as a legitemate expense and don't tax you on it - if I'm now to be charged on P&P, I will lose money on this. If I (now I know about it) put my P&P charges up to the break even point again, my items will be less attractive to potential purchasers
  
  I did not receive any notification of the changes from either organisation. It's bad enough they are doing this, but if they have not notified us, it seems something very underhand is going on. The terms of sale now are different to what I agreed to when I registered with both organisations and I have not received any notification of such changes. (Did anyone else get notified?) If others did get notified, then it's probably just a failing somewhere in my e-mail system, but if they didn't and had to find out for themselves, then that suggests it's a money grab. This is not the time or place for a law lecture, but short version, they are in very murky waters and at serious risk of having to pay money to their lawyers to fight a string of cases.

Sure, it's not a fortune and in the bigger picture of life, I know there are more important things to worry about. But from where I'm sitting, this looks like a cold, calculated attempt to squeeze private sellers and small businesses; speaking for both I am utterly sick of 'big business' trying to fleece us.

[strang steel]

I understand your frustration, and have looked back through my messages for the last 6 months. I found this from early August:-


05 August, 2013 | 11:54AM BST

Hello,

From 4 September, final value fees for all private sellers will change, as well as insertion fees for private sellers with a Basic Shop on eBay.co.uk

Final value fees change for all private sellers

Final value fees will be charged based on the combined value of the item listed plus postage. For example, if an item sells for £20 with postage cost of £4, the final value fee will be charged based on the combined value of £24. This will not apply if the listing offers collection only.

Insertion fees changes for private sellers with a Basic Shop

Private sellers with a Basic Shop subscription will not pay insertion fees on their first 200 listings per month. This is an increase from the previous 20 listings. Insertion fees for subsequent listings will be £0.20 for all categories - media items will no longer be priced differently.

Additionally, insertion fees for auction-style listings will be reduced and the number of bands will go down to two.

Auction-style listings with a starting price between £0.01 and £0.99 will still receive the monthly 100 free insertion fee allowance. From the 101 st listing, the insertion fee will be £0.05 for all categories including media (a change from £0.05 for media and £0.10 for all other categories).

For listings with a starting price above £1.00, the number of starting price bands will reduce from five to one. These items will be charged an insertion fee of £0.15 for all categories.

These changes will simplify the fees for sellers, allowing you to list more fixed price items at no additional cost and experiment with selling higher value items in auction format.

Regards,

The eBay Team


I think this may be the one you have missed.

[Autocar Publicity]

John, thanks for digging that out for me. Of the two gripes above, the thought that they were trying to introduce the changes without notification was by far the more disturbing (and strange - as in how could they hope to get away with it?). I've just had a delve through my old e-mail records and it's not there though, nor is there anything from PayPal. (And I usually check 'Spam' around once a week, as I've had several things go in there that aren't...). Looks like I've been unlucky.

Well, if you see more posts by me in the classifieds in the next few months, you'll (all) know why.

[strang steel]

It was not in the messages or the emails, it was in Announcements which is the last item when scrolling down the list on the left hand side (below the message inbox/archive/etc.).

[Autocar Publicity]

Hmmm... So they were relying on people to check those? Talk about hiding it, all I've ever seen in that box is 'zero insertion fees this weekend' and 'do you want to donate to [the latest charity appeal]?'. I notice they can e-mail us all when it's something they want to publicise, that's not too much trouble... It reminds me of the 'A good day to bury bad news' tactic and the approach some use to avoid getting prosecuted for insider trading, publish a two line 'squib' buried deep in an obscure trade journal. Have these people not heard of the 'red hand rule'?

[strang steel]

Yes, it does seem very underhand.

Presumably they have amended their own rules so that they can get away with the minimum of required publicity for these announcements?

I suppose that when you have established yourself as a giant of the online retail world, you think you can ride roughshod over those who paid their hard earned money to get you where you are?

[Autocar Publicity]

They could be disillusioned soon... I know several collectors and dealers who are mightily annoyed, it's not just me, and plan to use other means to sell. One of these, for the lower value items, is taking a (or a bigger) stand at exhibitions and swapmeets. It won't be as good as the Internet for the more specialist items, but for common items, it is cheaper for both buyer and seller - and could be a shot in the arm for exhibitions, some of which are struggling at the moment.

One of the things I like about the NER was that they did not ignore 'the little man' and, despite the size of their coal carrying business, did not turn their nose up at other, small freight business. They recognised both that we all have to start somewhere and small businesses can grow, and that small transactions, added together, can make a big contribution to the company coffers. That strikes me as a very sensible philosophy.

[Upchallenger]

Ebay and Paypal are getting so damn greedy.

[bw1165]

Yeah, it's very annoying. It means that one makes a loss on every postage paid, and these days the parcel post ain't cheap. It's a common problem these days that big companies seem to want to squeeze out the last penny, and leave their customers with as little profit as possible. It used to be called greed - now it seems to be just the way the big corporations work.

[65447]

Have all of you annoyed small traders thought to make representation to the appropriate government quango/agency, whichever one is responsible for fair trading this month? Charging fees on packing & postage might even be illegal in the UK, as it is in effect a tax. Are these costs exempt from VAT?

Or a parliamentary petition could be started - all on here (based in or trading with the UK) would probably sign it, and word could be spread...