Make do and Mend - Keeping going

[jwealleans]

Very good, David. I know what you mean about colour - I've come up with some horrible combinations in the past which I've rejected and the Stratford shade of brown, which Dan Pinnock says is close to Humbrol 133 and it has been suggested is just varnished freight stock brown, is not a colour I can take to at all.

The odd coach which you can see in books like The Big Four in Colour do look very dark in shade, though and NPCCS even darker.

[drmditch]

Looks smashing. Not wanting to detract from the quality of your conversion, but how similar would the old Ratio MR clerestory coaches be in appearance? Thinking in terms of those of us who might not be able to get hold of the Hornby variety.

I had that idea some years ago, and there is a Ratio MR kit at the bottom of my 'inbuilt kits box'. For me the critical factor is that the moulded panels have square corners rather than the rounded NER ones. Also, the roof profile is different and the bogies are 10' wheelbase (I think). The Hornby roof profile is also wrong for the NER (possibly correct for the GCR?) but can be modified to make the ends look better.

Of course, it all depends on where you want to compromise. You have got me thinking though. Will have to look up what LNER and pre-grouping carriages had rectangular mouldings. In my box I also found two Ratio kits for a 'Grounded Coach Body' which are I think a four/six wheeled GWR prototype. These do have rounded panels. Now I will have to spend an interesting evening checking what I might be able to make with those.......

[drmditch]

Good morning all
I've picked up several cheaply on Ebay.
The Ratio MR kits seem to be more expensive.
I enjoy chopping the Hornby clerestories, but the cost of bogies, wheels, flushglaze, vents, and underframe etc take the cost to around £30 per coach.
Earlswood nob

I can't comment on your £30 cost. I tend to lay in components for future projects in my 'fat' years, so I can keep busy in the 'lean' years which seem to have come round more recently of late.

The components for this vehicle were:-

Parts of two Hornby bodies - laid in years ago. I buy them when I see them at shows and the cost is reasonable. As you can see from the photographs one of the donor mouldings was in GWR and one in LNER livery, which does not matter at all. Other parts of one of the bodies went into another vehicle (of which more later).

Bogies - the Mailcoach/Coopercraft bogies were also bought years ago, so I cant remember the cost. This is my third time around with NER clerestory conversions. The first was a rather crude compromise, and has since been re-worked. The second produced the three NER liveried gas-lit vehicles (some pictures above). On these the ends are flat but still not as good as the new one, and they still use the (modified) Hornby bogies. These are I think based on Commonwealth bogies from Mark One stock. The wheelbase is 8'6" rather than 8'. But when the footboards are fitted a lot of the detail is obscured anyway. It does all depend on how much you are prepared to compromise. I was planning to replace these bogies but have just had another idea!

Wheels - Bachmann coach wheels bought in the convenient and reasonably priced spares packets Bachmann market. I know they are not the right section, but when painted black this is not al all visible.

Flushglaze - If I do this, I will cut the individual windows from acrylic sheet. I may though just resort to painting the excessive thickness of the moulding black (which is an Ian Rice tip from years ago) and place a glazing strip of the same acrylic sheet inside.

Ventilators - whitemetal from an un-remembered source. Again I have stock from years ago. (I must do an audit and see how many are left!) The electric light detail on the clerestory roof is made up from offcuts of copper electrical wire for the pots, and thin brass wire for the conduit. I tried thin fuse wire, as used for the gas piping on the earlier vehicles, but it went all squiggly and had to be replaced.

Underframe - entirely scratchbuilt from brass rod/tube/sheet and plastic of various sections. Of course these materials have a cost, but again I buy for stock and use over the years. The vacuum cylinders were cut from an expired cheap propelling pencil. The title of this thread is 'Make do and Mend' after all!

[drmditch]

Sorry - forgot to add the Wheeltappers brass buffers - which were relatively expensive - again in stock for a long time. There are cheaper alternatives for buffers, and I'll put up a later post about them if anyone is interested.

[earlswood nob]

G'day all
My price estimate for clerestory conversions was allowing £4 for the coach and everything else bought at todays prices, including expensive bogies as it seems impossible to get them from Coopercraft at the moment.
I only built a few Kirk kits when modelling 30 years ago, so do not have an "Odds and Sods" box for coaches like I do for locos.
I find chopping coaches around is very enjoyable and it's improving my modelling techniques.
I shall have to chop some more when I finish the couple of D49 conversions that I have on my workbench.
Earlswood nob

[Bill Bedford]

Presumably, turning a crank axle up from solid shouldn't be too difficult for a CNC lathe.
Perhaps if enough people got together for a bulk order it might be possible to get batch made?

The minimum order would be around 120 - 150.

[earlswood nob]

G'day all esp DRM
I've found the NERA publishes 5 vols of NER Passenger vehicles.
I wonder if anyone has details of what is covered by these publications?
Would they be useful to an amateur like myself, who just wants to bash a few carriages?
Earlswood nob

[DS239]

Thinking in terms of those of us who might not be able to get hold of the Hornby variety.

As others have said,they turn up often on Ebay,having been made fairly recently to go in a couple of train sets.East Kent Models still have the brake coach body as a spare part.

G'day all esp DRM
I've found the NERA publishes 5 vols of NER Passenger vehicles.
I wonder if anyone has details of what is covered by these publications?
Would they be useful to an amateur like myself, who just wants to bash a few carriages?
Earlswood nob

I'd be interested as well.Does anyone know if any of the NER Brake Compo's as modelled by Drmditch [Dia.75?] were amongst the coaches transferred to the south in the thirties?

Also any other non-corridor brake compo's that could be seen in East Anglia in the thirties that could be 'bashed' from Hornby clerestories,ex-GC maybe? Or ex-GN,-from chopped up Hornby 'shorty' Gresley coaches maybe?
I also fancy having a go at one of the Gresley suburban brake compo's but it seems these were all allocated north of the border,unless anyone knows differently.

I've done quite a bit of web searching but haven't found much info,it seems that it's in specialist publications..

[Atlantic 3279]

See previous post:

The Hornby basic body shells serve well for the production of GC stock of the same era too, with new roofs and underframe details along with detailed revision of the features of the sides. As with the NE stock, the doors & duckets of the brake portion cause problems but with cutting and shutting plus limited scratch building of fill-ins this can be overcome. In this mode too there is limitation on the coach types that can be modelled, no provision for loos to the further discomfort of the travelling public, and the odd "blind-eye" can be useful. I for instance have a clerestory locker-composite with no luggage locker.......

And regarding mention of the roof in a recent previous post too. No, the Hornby roof really is NO good for the GC style as it stands. The eaves need to be much more rounded, and the clerestory sides are almost all glass on the GC version as opposed to having limited numbers of glazed lights as per the old Hornby roof.

[drmditch]

G'day all esp DRM
I've found the NERA publishes 5 vols of NER Passenger vehicles.
I wonder if anyone has details of what is covered by these publications?
Would they be useful to an amateur like myself, who just wants to bash a few carriages?
Earlswood nob

The North Eastern Railway Association website is North Eastern Railway Association
The full list of publications is here - Books and Publications

There are indeed five volumes for NER Passenger vehicles, which also include such delights as a Diagram 89 Sentinel Railcar, and various vehicles transferred from ECJS and other LNER areas. The diagrams are not scale drawings as such, but do contain the vital dimensions. Unfortunately the vehicles I am interested in modelling are scattered through the five volumes, but this does give rise to many pleasant evenings by the fireside measuring and speculating!

As this thread (especially on page 2) sets out it is relatively straightforward to produce a representation of a Diagram 14 all third.

As also mentioned on page 2 of this thread, there is also a very useful scale drawing in a re-print of Sidney Stones book 'Railway Carriages and Wagons' of 1903 published by Peter Kay as ISBN 899890. It has a detail drawing at 6.1875mm (1/4" ?)to the foot of an NER bogie CL, although this does appear to be missing some details.

Also very helpful is the NER Record Volume 2, which contains history, some details and many photographs on NER passenger and freight stock.

As to what one chooses to spend money (if any available) purchasing, my priorities are always books and tools. With these I can make anything else!

I must also point out that my converted coaches are 'representations'. There are several details that are wrong.

[drmditch]

And regarding mention of the roof in a recent previous post too. No, the Hornby roof really is NO good for the GC style as it stands. The eaves need to be much more rounded, and the clerestory sides are almost all glass on the GC version as opposed to having limited numbers of glazed lights as per the old Hornby roof.

Sorry, wasn't meaning to imply otherwise. The Hornby roof is really wrong for the NER as well, and it would be better to replace it entirely. I have tried to reshape the end profile and the clerestory, but the result is very much a compromise. The only advantage of retaining the Hornby roof is that clips the sides together and can be kept as removable. Since I have longer term plans to fit lighting to some of my conversions then this last is helpful.

Of course, since the coach is 2mm under width anyway, a more thorough conversion would be just to use the side mouldings to build a new vehicle. Perhaps Atlantic3279 could show us some of his?

[drmditch]

Also any other non-corridor brake compo's that could be seen in East Anglia in the thirties that could be 'bashed' from Hornby clerestories,ex-GC maybe? Or ex-GN,-from chopped up Hornby 'shorty' Gresley coaches maybe?
I also fancy having a go at one of the Gresley suburban brake compo's but it seems these were all allocated north of the border,unless anyone knows differently.

I've done quite a bit of web searching but haven't found much info,it seems that it's in specialist publications..

If you look on Page 4 of this thread, you will see my chopped up 'short' Hornby Gresley corridor vehicles appearing in three 52' non-corridor guises. (Although I must get round to modifying the roof details). On different level of aptitude and excellence there is also Atlantic3279's brilliant conversion to produce a Howlden vehicle.

[DS239]

Also any other non-corridor brake compo's that could be seen in East Anglia in the thirties that could be 'bashed' from Hornby clerestories,ex-GC maybe? Or ex-GN,-from chopped up Hornby 'shorty' Gresley coaches maybe?
I also fancy having a go at one of the Gresley suburban brake compo's but it seems these were all allocated north of the border,unless anyone knows differently.

I've done quite a bit of web searching but haven't found much info,it seems that it's in specialist publications..

If you look on Page 4 of this thread, you will see my chopped up 'short' Hornby Gresley corridor vehicles appearing in three 52' non-corridor guises. (Although I must get round to modifying the roof details). On different level of aptitude and excellence there is also Atlantic3279's brilliant conversion to produce a Howlden vehicle.

Yes,I've been reading through this thread and others and seen both your conversions and Atlantic3279's which have inspired me to have a go myself,[having a few clerestory and 'short' Gresley coach bodies in stock] but what I was after is information on which coaches would have run on the GE section in East Anglia in the 1930's,in particular brake compo's as these would be suitable to use as a one-coach train on a rural branch line. So I need to determine which actual vehicles would be appropriate to the area before I have a go at making them..

Could you please clarify whether your NER brake compo is to dia.75,or if not which diagram it does represent?

[earlswood nob]

Evenin' all
I'll go ahead and order the NERA books of coaches. Books have always been a weakness of mine. I have bookcases everywhere and still need more.
A thought , which I will probably be able to answer when I buy the NER books is: can one produce low roof stock from Hornby Clerestorys? New roof would be needed, possibly from brass sheet, as I tend to get curved plasticard roofs into a skew form.
Visitors have just arrived, so I must rush.
Earlswood nob

[drmditch]

Could you please clarify whether your NER brake compo is to dia.75,or if not which diagram it does represent?

As I did say above, my lake liveried brake vehicles are 'approximations' to a Diagram 26 and 135. I can put up some more pictures if required. I have another 'approximation' to a Diagram 75 in hand, which will be inaccurate for its third class compartments. As far as I can see, the only vehicles for which the Hornby body side mouldings will allow an accurate representation are a Diagram 14 Third and a Diagram 83 Brake third. The later may require One Hornby 'C' and two 'BT' donor vehicles, and there may need to be some compromise in the brake end area.

I haven't made a Diagram 83 yet, partly for reasons of economy in donor vehicles, and partly because I have a Diagram 116 planned, which will need the materials I have in stock.

Hope this makes things plain. I am a rather poor modeller in several respects, and I did and do make compromises for reasons of cost, skill, and patience. On the other hand, the only other way I know of making NER Clerestory vehicles is to use brass kits, which are much more expensive and may well test my skill levels even more!

Now I must get away from this computer and make some things!
(Except that I think that I'll need to create and print up some artwork for the partitions. I wonder how many of the pictures will be visible though the glazing!)