West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

Those two specifically are the same thing. I have one somewhere. They're flatter than a Kirk roof, which most people seem to think is too domed (I don't have a problem with it personally).

I did a comparison for Larry Goddard on RMWeb, if I can find it....

Edit - here you go. White roof is Kirk, grey is Phoenix/Wizaed.

[45609]

I bought a couple of the Phoenix ones and was very disappointed with the appearance/fit on the MJT ends and body. Hence my thoughts turned to mastering/casting a new one. I know that the casting resin doesn't shrink much but would a little extra allowance on the length be a prudent thing?

[jwealleans]

The great thing with the MJT ends is that they have the alarm gear. It's a bit of a hobby horse of mine that I keep having to make it because no-one else provides it in kits.

[jwealleans]

OK, first thing, a bit of backtracking on some advice I gave a few posts back. I mentioned No. 10 presstuds. If this should happen to you:



... what you need are these:



7mm presstuds - No. 10 seems to have been some sort of predecimal classification which has been superceded. Or maybe they were bought in Europe. Anyway, the 'male' part of one of these is quite a slack fit in the other half from the kit, hence removing the need to do the filing which seems to have caused the problem in the first place. Maybe a mix and match is the way forward. Problem solved.

The roofs have had a coat of filler primer which has made it all but impossible to see any detail in the photos:



What I also did was superglued some 10 x 20 thou Evergreen along the cornices where there was a step, then gently filed it back to give a smooth continuous edge. I've had to do some very small further patches of filling, but given that I generally do roofs with a thickish mix of paint and talc these are probably as good as they need to be.

[MikeTrice]

My biggest gripe with the moulded roofs is, as you say, the incorrect curve where they meet the end which most treat as a simple curve. It should be semi-elliptical. Using a simple cure results in the end being too low and the vestibule has to be shrunk. I can spot a Kirk a mile away.

Resin would probably shrink too much.

In the old days we used to supply Newey 7mm (bright) press studs.

[Atlantic 3279]

If and when I produce my "bodger's" generic Howlden clerestory roof in resin that should provide and interesting answer to the speculation about resin shrinkage. All I can say so far is that when I made resin copies of a bogie wagon body 152mm long they came out 152 mm long, and some time after casting them I could see no length difference at all on placing the resin copies in direct contact with the master.

[45609]

If and when I produce my "bodger's" generic Howlden clerestory roof in resin that should provide and interesting answer to the speculation about resin shrinkage. All I can say so far is that when I made resin copies of a bogie wagon body 152mm long they came out 152 mm long, and some time after casting them I could see no length difference at all on placing the resin copies in direct contact with the master.

That's useful data Graeme. My question came from a particular observation of the resin roof from the 4mm Masterclass models BR CCT kit. This roof would be about half the length of a Gresley corridor coach roof.

I bought 2 kits from Chris Higgs when he did a kit re-run a couple of years ago. I selected one at random to build and when it came to fitting the roof I found it didn't fit snugly inside the box formed by the sides and ends of the body. It was over length by about 0.5mm. I got out the second kit and the roof on this fitted perfectly and was visible shorter than the other one. I believe that these cast roofs were done by a commercial supplier (possible CMA Mouldform). I mentioned the problem to Chris, partly in the hope that he could supply a spare roof to replace the oversize one, but I was told that the variability was inherent in the process and he didn't have any spares. Draw your own conclusion on the feedback and perhaps there is another reason for the length difference but I did have the evidence in front of me. Without knowing exactly the size of the master from which the moulding was made it appears that one roof has shrunk by approx 0.5% and the other one has not moved.

Other than that it was a great kit to build.

Cheers....Morgan

[jwealleans]

I would have to defer to your greater experience of the medium, Graeme and as you know I have one of your loco coal wagons which is indeed straight and true. I'd be worried about distortion or twisting as well as shrinkage, though: I was talking to Graham Baker (GraModels) about an LSWR bogie bolster I've been asked to build and he said he's had a go at something of a similar length but found problems with the body twisting. I had some cast resin ferry vans where the sides pulled inwards and had to be braced out again to make them quite square.

These roofs haven't taken an undue time to get to this stage and although I don't have your almost supernatural ability to make invisible joints I'm not too unhappy with them.

[mick b]

Would brass rods added to the moulding aka GN footplate help the keep them straight ?

[LNER4479]

Dave's has been more than generous with drawings, but I still haven't located a photo of a D10C showing which side the solebar vacuum pipe ran. Can anyone point me to such a picture, if there is one? All I can find are different diagrams and under BR, by which time they might have been altered.

For the moment I'm holding off adding it until something surfaces although my suspicion is that it ran along the kitchen side.

Hi Jonathan,

Have had a scout round in my reference material and found a picture of an ex-works RF No.6119 (looks like its new build picture). According to the Gresley coaches build list, 6119 was a diagram 10C from 1929. Fortunately, the picture is of the kitchen side and there indeed in the vac pipe, attached to the lower edge of the solebar (not the middle) and then it cranks down at the end... tell you what - I'll send you a copy of the picture!

[Dave]

Could I be rude and ask for a copy of the photo please LNER4479, if thats possible, jonathan could forward it to me.

On looking further you also have to accomodate the line of the steam pipe under the carriage and
miss the queen posts, so although the underframe drawing is the only info I seem to have that shows an outside vac pipe
I now feel looking at all the drawings I have that it would be extremely difficult to find a route other than externally.

[LNER4479]

Not rude at all Dave! That's the benefit of the forum and goodness knows I've gained much from it on account of other people's research; it'll make a pleasant change if I'm able to help others out for once. I'll e-mail it to Jonathan, best resolution I can manage, then leave it for him to forward on.

[Dave]

Thank you.

[LNER4479]

OK - just sent pic to Jonathan

[jwealleans]

Well, thanks to 4479 - and thanks as well to Dave and 2512silverfox for their efforts on my behalf - the pipe has been spotted and located. I spent most of Sunday fiddling on with roof details as I hope you can see. Soldering should now be complete and further details will be glued, unless anything major comes adrift. There are even more roof pipes to go on, but these come down over the end and so won't be added until the ends are painted.





Dave kindly sent me the drawings he used for the roof details and I've leaned heavily on his thread for the way he did the vents and other bits. If you're thinking of building one of these, it's essential reading.