Make do and Mend - Keeping going

[drmditch]

Was re-reading a bit in RCTS Vol6C and Yeadon Vol23 with morning coffee.
Apparently, the chimneys were originally the same height as those used for the Q6, although the 'windjabber' may have differed.
In any case. they did vary over time, so it's probably a case of picking a loco/timescale.

I think I may have a chimney and possibly a dome.... and other parts. The tender kit I have in stock though is definitely the wrong one - but I may have a workround for that!

[drmditch]

Now the first J21 is finished an older project (see page 2 above) can make some progress.

This one is in late LNER condition with electric lighting and vacuum brake, and it has been very difficult to find prototype information, despite some helpful replies here. The underframe detail is an approximation based on two photographs. I suspect that the battery box was at one end only, and I don't seem able to find out where the dynamo went. There do seem to have been a lot of differences between vehicles.

This is the fifth NER Clerestory I've re-built from the shorter Hornby mouldings, and I must have forgotten the technique because the roof of this one is the least satisfactory of all of them. It may need to be scrapped and replaced by something else.

The bogies are 8' Fox from Coopercraft in plastic. I've made the coil springs slightly more prominent and added footboards. I do have some brass/whitemetal Fox bogies to build, but they are earmarked for an upgrade of my NER liveried gas lit vehicles.

If anyone would like to see more constructional details I can post some pictures; even though they do show a number of mistakes!

[Atlantic 3279]

Interesting! I like the fact that you've eraditated the turn-under of the ends as well as sorting out all of the other details. How many pieces of coach side are we looking at in each side of the new coach, and how many donor coaches did it consume Dave?

Was there any delay in getting the Fox bogies out of Coopercraft/Mailcoach?

[drmditch]

Interesting! I like the fact that you've eraditated the turn-under of the ends as well as sorting out all of the other details. How many pieces of coach side are we looking at in each side of the new coach, and how many donor coaches did it consume Dave?

Was there any delay in getting the Fox bogies out of Coopercraft/Mailcoach?

There are two basic Hornby mouldings, one 'C' - of an alleged 'composite', (but in fact all the distances between compartments are the same), and a brake third 'BT' , with closer spaced compartments and duckets for lookouts. Sadly, these are not opposite each other in plan view. I've chopped up several to create the five vehicles that I'll eventually have running, and I'm afraid I cant remember exactly how many! The Dia14 coach above is entirely made from 'C' mouldings, and thus needs parts from a minimum of two donor coaches, as you can see from the different colours on the above photographs. It's really a matter of matching up the side profiles of the diagrams you want to make. I've been working from NERA published diagrams - and selectively 'cheating' where required.

This one uses parts of a 'BT' at each end, and a bit of 'C' in the middle. It's one of the my earlier attempts and is due for some improvements!

For the current project, I've made entirely new ends.(and yes, they could be better made - and the next ones will be!)

There are also new buffer beams, and a thin section underneath to represent the bottom of the solebars. I then use more plastic to reinforce the floors, with brass sheet bolted through to add strength and weight.

I keep the basic Hornby 'trough' mouldings rather than just detach the sides (except for the duckets that need to to be moved), and cut and shut them. Reinforcement is added as required. This means accepting that they are under width by 2mm but does mean that you can also re-use the roofs. These have a lip on each side which engages with the body mouldings and keeps everything in place, and can be also cut and shut as needed. Additional clerestory windows may need to be opened up. I then make an additional cover for the clerestory from thin sheet with a locating strip on each side. This is the part that hasn't worked as well on the latest coach.

I've also re-worked the roof curve profile on both the coach ends and the clerestory moulding. This latter demands care and patience!

[drmditch]

I've had the bogie kits in stock for a while, so can't comment on availability at the moment. They needed quite a bit of reinforcement. I make bearings from brass bolts and tube.

The bolts thread into a captive nut soldered onto a brass plate inside the coach.

The attraction of the Hornby mouldings is that they have rounded panels which are quite a good match for some NER prototypes. Certainly the 52' 8 compartment third comes out to within half a millimetre of scale length.

It might also be possible to use the same mouldings for the 45' Clerestory stock, and possibly also for the 49' Low Roof vehicles.

[Horsetan]

....Was there any delay in getting the Fox bogies out of Coopercraft/Mailcoach?

Very long and possibly murky story behind this, but the last I heard was that Slaters are trying to prevent the use of the name Coopercraft on the 4mm kit range.

Could be a very long time before that gets sorted, so general advice is to buy at shows if you can catch him there, as he's not very good at responding to phone/e-mail/letters.

[MikeTrice]

Brilliant concept drmditch.

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
An interesting thread, as the ex-NER clerestories lasted a long time and almost every pic I see of north eastern branch lines has a clerestory coach in the formation. Your J21 hauling a short train of clerestories would capture a capture the look of a branch line.

As I'm completely ignorant of NER coach details (and a lot of other things as well), it saves me looking at pics under a magnifying glass and counting the compartment doors etc.

I have a collection of Triang/Hornby clerestory bodies waiting for conversion. I shall have to get the measuring stick out busy myself planning a rake. That will give me something to do this morning as I await a courier with some more Yeadons, as I re-opened the wound on my finger over the weekend and don't intend using solvents or fluxes until it heals properly this time.

Earlswood nob

[drmditch]

I have a collection of Triang/Hornby clerestory bodies waiting for conversion. I shall have to get the measuring stick out busy myself planning a rake. Earlswood nob

Wouldn't wish to mislead you. I've applied 'selective cheating' on three of mine. The Hornby mouldings give you the elements for third class compartments and (used selectively) the brake ends. As far as I can see the only NER diagrams for which these allow an accurate reproduction are Dia14 8 compartment third (as shown above), and a Dia 83 Brake third. This latter however might demand the sacrifice of three vehicles - one 'C' and two 'BT'.

I've produced approximations of Diagrams 135, 26 and 75, but as I say they are not really accurate. They did allow some economy in donor vehicles though. I did these fairly early in my 'conversion' history and made more compromises than I would now.

I haven't found anyway of producing lavatory vehicles - so my (imaginary) passengers will have to keep their legs crossed!

[Atlantic 3279]

The Hornby basic body shells serve well for the production of GC stock of the same era too, with new roofs and underframe details along with detailed revision of the features of the sides. As with the NE stock, the doors & duckets of the brake portion cause problems but with cutting and shutting plus limited scratch building of fill-ins this can be overcome. In this mode too there is limitation on the coach types that can be modelled, no provision for loos to the further discomfort of the travelling public, and the odd "blind-eye" can be useful. I for instance have a clerestory locker-composite with no luggage locker.......

[earlswood nob]

G'day all
I did repaint a Hornby Clerestory in chocolate/French grey and it looked good. I then cut off the grab rails & door handes to fit wire ones, and resprayed it ertz-teak, as I don't know the GCR livery lasted.
I've calculated that 9 of the BT compartments or 8 of the C compartments will give a 52' coach. The BT with a C compartment added will also give 52'.
If 3 C compartments are added to 2 BT brake ends it gives 52'6 would easily be trimmed to 52'.
The NER seemed to like 3 compartment brakes, and the LNER also produced them.
How many people count the number of compartments when looking at a model?
The parcel girl has just arrived with some Yeadons, so the afternoon is now booked (pun).
Earlswood nob

[drmditch]

Brilliant concept drmditch.

Thank you, but I'm sure a lot of other people have used these mouldings, though it is quite fun seeing what can be made with them!

[drmditch]

Here is some progress. At least it has moved some way away from the Hornby originals. It took some research (largely in old copies of the NERA Express) to work out the details for the roof and the end without the handrails, but I think it is more-or-less correct.

I had some panic when painting. I have a trusty acrylic that I use for LNER teak painted vehicles. When I did some checks and research on BS 490 (mentioned by Mr Harris) it was a lot darker than I have seen on the CCTs at Monkwearmouth and Pickering and which have set my 'mental image'. However Mr Harris does say that York used a lighter shade.

The result was that this vehicle got painted twice, once with a darker brown which I didn't like at all and then with the colour I should have trusted in the first place. What I will do when the pot runs out I don't know!

Left to do are :-
Completing the interior. Mustn't get carried away with this, it'll hardly be visible.
Weathering selectively and carefully, which will at least obscure my confusion over what colour the solebars should be.
Grab Handles. Holes drilled for them, and I have worked out a way of making them.
Glazing. I was just going to revert to the clumsy Hornby method, but I think it will be worthwhile trying flush glazing.

Neither of the last two are worth rushing. I'll take some more pictures when they are done - and the light is better!

[Manxman1831]

Looks smashing. Not wanting to detract from the quality of your conversion, but how similar would the old Ratio MR clerestory coaches be in appearance? Thinking in terms of those of us who might not be able to get hold of the Hornby variety.

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
I've picked up several cheaply on Ebay.
The Ratio MR kits seem to be more expensive.
I enjoy chopping the Hornby clerestories, but the cost of bogies, wheels, flushglaze, vents, and underframe etc take the cost to around £30 per coach.
Earlswood nob