Trespass on the GNR & LNER

[Iron Duke]

Following on from the picture posted on Railway Chat - "Trainspotting - 30 years ago"
Here are a couple of my photographs of typical GNR & LNER Trespass notices.
Pity these were not still around at the time, although these, if I recall were situated at Bingham, Notts.

I wonder what the fine stated would amount to in modern times?

ID

[strang steel]

This site is useful for those kinds of comparisons.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bill ... -1900.html

The GNR sign mentions 40 shillings which was a lot of money in those days. The date of the sign appears to be 1895 but the inflation calculator only goes back to 1900, although that is near enough.

Put £2 and 1900 into the box, and it comes up with £208.35 at today's prices, which seems a reasonable amount for each offence. And, judging by the numbers who seem to trespass with complete abandon these days, fines of that amount would make a decent contribution to Network Rail's finances.

[giner]

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that there's much trespassing going on. With all that spiked metal fencing nowadays I thought that'd be enough to deter anyone. A bit different from the old wood four-bar fence we used to park our bums on.

[Mickey]

Those 2 cast-iron trespass notice boards have obviously been 'tarted up' Iron Duke.

Back in the late 1960s and into the early 1970s there was still a fair number of those L.N.E.R. and maybe G.N.R. trespass notice boards to be found at various locations up the London end (Kings Cross-Hitchin) usually in an all over black and weather worn condition.

[Iron Duke]

Yes, you are probably right, according to my notes the year was 1971.
Here is a picture taken around 1963 at Gonerby Lane Bridge, near Peascliffe Tunnel.
Yours truly & brother exiting my Dad's Hillman Minx to watch the approaching Pinza & Pullmans whizz through.
Unfortunately my Dad (who took this snap) was not as quick as us so Pinza was unrecorded on film at least......
Can't make out the Trespass type (LNER or GNR) but what would be the purpose of the diamond shaped sign?

ID

[v3man]

The diamond shaped sign showed the maximum weight of heavy vehicle which could cross the bridge.

See one for auction at http://www.cheffins.co.uk/lot/-549798-vintage-0 (Even if it is GWR!)

[1H was 2E]

Something that emerged in a previous thread about bridge numbering was the impact of parliamentary legislation, and possibly the sane applies to trespass etc.. Perhaps the date on the signs relates to the date of the particular bill, so although the dates on different railways' signs are different those for a particular railway are all the same, a bill being required for each railway. I recollect as a spotter being slightly disappointed that all those big LNWR signs warning of the consequences of failing to shut the gate in widely separated locations all had the same date - 1st November 1888 from memory.
I recall speaking to a BTP sergeant (NOT as an offender!) about trespass in the 70's and he said that, before charging a trespasser, they checked that there was a trespass warning sign at the nearest station - the signs were usually white on red enamel and fixed near to the ticket barrier. This criterion would possibly mean that the cast iron ones in the countryside were unnecessary.

[strang steel]

Yes, you are probably right, according to my notes the year was 1971.
Here is a picture taken around 1963 at Gonerby Lane Bridge, near Peascliffe Tunnel.
Yours truly & brother exiting my Dad's Hillman Minx to watch the approaching Pinza & Pullmans whizz through.
Unfortunately my Dad (who took this snap) was not as quick as us so Pinza was unrecorded on film at least......
Can't make out the Trespass type (LNER or GNR) but what would be the purpose of the diamond shaped sign?

ID

Lovely.

I could have been a mile or two down the line at Barkston at the same time, in my Dad's Austin 1100, or maybe A40. I can't remember when he changed cars.

I don't suppose you have any spotting notes? I lost all mine (the polite way of saying my mother put them in the bin).

[Iron Duke]

John,

Probably do have the notes somewhere as I never did seem to throw anything away.
I can remember that we often noted the same Deltic on a morning service and again returning later in the afternoon.
At the time we thought this a bit of a swizz. The Pullmans were recorded by one of us shouting out the names (or car number) and the other frantically scribbling them down.
The trick was for the writer to glance up and down to ensure that they had also "spotted" all of the formation.
Some of the notes had to be corrected when back at home e.g "Adrian's Bark" etc etc. We were only young !!

Most of our trips were to Peascliffe, Barkston, Grantham & Stoke, but going back to the title of this thread we never set foot onto railway property.

ID

[mr B]

not been into laws but , would the notice of trespass be enforceable on the grounds that NER notices where on display when LNER was in existance , like wise same warnings with todays BR . Surely the said company would have to display their moto on sign erected ?

mr B

[1H was 2E]

Good point Mr B but many signs in BR days had the 'trespass' bit picked out in white but not the railway company name; and on the Southern Region only the S and R were painted on 'L&SWR' etc - luckily all the Southern pregroup coys had an S in their initials.
Perhaps if a footballer had been prosecuted Lawyer Loophole would have explored this for us.

[Bryan]

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that there's much trespassing going on. With all that spiked metal fencing nowadays I thought that'd be enough to deter anyone. A bit different from the old wood four-bar fence we used to park our bums on.

I am not surprised at all.
When working in a Maintenance office on the railway back in the 90s we went through the reports submitted by the PW supervisors for fencing proposals.
Most were for new concrete post and wire some with additional wiring for livestock, however one proposal was for 8mm wire size chain link fence.
This was investigated and approved and erected.

Within 30 minutes of the fence being completed it was cut through by locals too idle to use the footbridge 5 yards away.

That's Harrogate for you.

Similar situation everywhere else.
The introduction of rechargable disc cutters / angle grinders has not helped the situation as it is all too easy to cut sections of palisade fencing out.

[giner]

Yep, where there's a will and all that, I suppose. Stupid is as stupid does.

[strang steel]

I have just looked at the sign next to my local railway station, and it states the current fine for railway trespass is £1000, so likely to be higher in real cost terms that the forty shillings of 1897.

[Cuddie Headrigg]

Wonder what happened to this N.E.R. '40 Shilling' sign from West Pelton?