1. What kind of CCTs did the LNER use, if any, before 1939? I've been searching for a 4mm kit of one for quite some time, and only found the Parkside Dundas kit, which is World War II onwards.
2. What kinds of vehicles and formations would you find on fish trains? I know that there were the obvious short-wheelbase 4 wheeler vans, but was there any with a longer wheelbase, or even similar to a CCT or parcels van? Also, some example formations would be much appreciated
Do you mean specifically CCTs, or the wider Passenger Brake/General Van/BG area of NPCCS? Most of the CCTs used prewar were either pregroup or further builds of pregroup designs. Some North Eastern bogie CCTs were still being built as late as 1950. There were 4 wheel, 6 wheel and bogie designs. The LNER did build a 4 wheel General Van, as well as a version for milk traffic, which D & S used to do. They also did the 4 wheel panelled van (BY) which is now in the Chivers range and has been seen all over this and other forums. I have 3 OMWB at the moment. The LLCK was introduced I suspect when some of these older designs started to reach the end of their life, although it was the end of the 1950s before they became really scarce.
Bill B is your best bet for these - I know he does some NE diagrams and a nice M & GN 6 wheeler I've noted for future reference and probably a great many more.
D & S used to cover a great many of these if you can find them on Ebay and Roger Chivers also did a number in etched brass - again Ebay is your best bet.
There are a few drawings (a couple of GN ones spring to mind) in the Campling coaching stock drawings book and some more in the NPCCS volume.
In fish trains the overwhelming majority of vehicles were 4 wheel. If you want variety from the Parkside kits (and you can use the corrugated end van as a fish vehicle) there are 4 wheel vans available from ABS (LNER standard) and 51L (North Eastern). Falcon Brass offer a couple of GN ones, including at least one with a Clerestory roof and a long wheelbase GC van which was used for fish. R & E Models used to do the GC bogie fish van but they seem to be NLA. Again, D & S did a nice GC 4 wheeler and an NB 6 wheeler which are now NLA. If you model early LNER then open fish trucks were used and 51L at least do one of these.
If Bill B picks this thread up I'm sure he'll let you know what he can offer, or you could download his catalogue, which is a very pleasurable route to mentally spending millions.
The GCR was a prolific builder of larger than normal fish vans designed to run in passenger trains, including a 6-wheeler of MSLR design with 'normal' coach panelling and simply lourves instead of windows. That type 'just' made it to grouping (1923 anyway). However in LNER days the majority of fish traffic was good ol' 4-wheel vans.
The double-door GCR van as made by D&S was indeed downgraded to fish use after about 1922, but if you find one second-hand remember that the roof doors were removed when overhauled for fish traffic. If you give me an email I can hook you up with some ex GCR fish trains photos and some drawings- though they are tricky little b~+;'rs to scratcbuild though with those louvred sides!
Thanks for those interesting ideas, Wehf I think I'll take you up on that offer; even if I can't scratchbuild I could try kitbashing for a similar vehicle using the drawings.
Falcon Brass WK308 - GC 15T fish van. I believe it's the LWB 4 wheeler as opposed to the bogie van. I note they also do the 10T open sided van - I believe that's the one D & S used to do, which is a very nice looking vehicle.
Bass wrote:Thanks for that, Jwealleans Yes, I was reffering to CCTs and any similar longer-wheelbased, non-bogies stock (I guess I should have clarified).
The LNER only built some 45' bogie CCTs similar to the NER design. Pre-grouping CCT were either approxmately 22' four wheelers, 32' six wheelers or 45' bogies.
The long four wheeled vans need a welded underframe that wasn't avaiable until the mid 30s.
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