West End Workbench

[Saint Johnstoun]

I think it depended on the wagons available. If they were conflats then it was possible to fit two to a wagon, but in other cases one to a wagon would be the case. I went through the Ferguson photo archive at Stareton years ago and there were shots of tractors loaded two to a wagon in those files, unfortunately I never succeeded in getting prints of all the photos I wanted due to the closure of MFs audio visual dept. and outsourcing such work. Ted Everett who was their main photographer did rescue some stuff but I lost touch a long time ago and don't even know if he is still alive!

MF got sucked into the Agco empire and production was transferred to Beauvais, they lost interest in their heritage too and the big orders for my Fergie 20 book I used to get also ceased!

Fergies also went out via Harwich too as you say, also Liverpool and Cardiff. David Brown's factory was at Meltham near Huddersfield and the Meltham branch was partly kept open latterly purely for the outshipping of tractors. There was of course also the shipping of second-hand units by dealers for export and before the onslaught of ro-ro vehicle ferries this was often done by rail. I also understand that trains of Fergies went to Holland via the Harwich-Hook train ferry but have never seen any pics!

[earlswood nob]

Afternoon all
I am little knowledge of tractors, but I seem to remember my father telling me that Fordson tractors were made at Dagenham. That would only be a short trip to Harwich for export to europe.
I don't know how the Fordson compared to the Ferguson. They all look alike to me.
Earlswood nob

[jwealleans]

Fordson

Ferguson

[D2100]

What did they load them onto which had room for two? I had been toying with that idea; I suppose a Chivers Long Low would probably do it.

That's something else that made me wonder tbh; even with the wee Fergie, it seems a squeeze getting two on a 17'6 o/h wagon.

[jwealleans]

I tried it and it looked silly. You'd need something longer, a Plate or similar.

[Saint Johnstoun]

Fordson tractors were indeed built at Dagenham and were shipped out by rail. I do have some pics somewhere which I will post when I find them.

To give an idea of production scale, Fordsons during the war reached 100 a day, whilst the Banner Lane Plant at Coventry when commissioned in 1946 was one of the most modern production facilities in the world. It was capable of turning out 300 units a day, so you will see that would take some number of lorries and trains to move them.

It was just possible to get two Fergies on a Conflat. The later Fordson Majors were bigger and one could only get a single unit on an ordinary wagon.

[jwealleans]

This is the photo I was thinking of, which proves St. J's point above.

[D2100]

It was just possible to get two Fergies on a Conflat.

Didnt see the earlier mention of this; apologies. It raises another spectre though, the matter of how they were roped onto a wagon that wasnt really designed to be roped to.

[Saint Johnstoun]

The photo shown above is of Fordson Super Major Tractors - they were too big to get two to a wagon. The old Standard Fordsons used to be loaded three to a wagon crossways as they were compact enough to do so.

[D2100]

Interestinger and interestinger, to misquote Alice

[Saint Johnstoun]

During the War, Fordsons were loaded into anything that they could use, often ordinary five plank wagons three to a wagon. By loading crossways in alternate directions three could be squeezed in.

Only problem arose when it came to unloading as a suitable crane capable of lifting 1.5 tons had to be on site. Tractors shipped to Perthshire dealers came to Perth NB Goods and were craned off. They were mostly on steel wheels with the spade lugs unfitted and in a sack tied under the driver's seat. As there were no unloading facilities at outlying stations like Blairgowrie the Dealer staff sent to collect had to drive them over the granite setts in town, on steel wheels, at a maximum speed of 5 mph in top gear all the way to their destination! A three hour trip to reach Blair! At least it ran the engine in a bit!

They also had to start the things with a minimum supply of petrol and get the things running on TVO before risking a run through town - not an easy task with a new tight engine.

The goods yard scenario would make an excellent diorama for somebody to tackle!

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
Whilst all this talk about tractors is a diversion from JW's thread, I am finding it very interesting.
One question: What is TVO? My father used to talk about starting them on petrol and then running them on paraffin. I always thought tractors ran on diesel which was tinted pink as it was duty-free.
We know autumn will soon be on us, as tractors, combines, etc seem to be on our roads most days.
Earlswood nob

[Saint Johnstoun]

Without hijacking this thread which is really about railways, TVO was tractor vaporising oil, a sort of refined Paraffin. Before the 1950s most tractors ran on it - it was a low cost fuel which was exempted from duty but could only be used for agricultural purposes. It had to be heated before it would burn in a spark ignition engine so tractors designed to run on it were fitted with a vaporiser which took heat from the exhaust manifold and 'vaporised' the fuel. You had to start from cold with petrol to get the manifold and engine warmed up before changing over to TVO - tractors had two fuel tanks = a small one for petrol and the main one for TVO.

I am told that there were some rail tank wagons lettered 'Shellspark' which was the shell brand - Esso was Esso Green. Somewhere I have seen a wartime photo of TVO being hand pumped from a rail tank wagon into a War Ag fuel bowser which were small tankers towed by a high geared Fordson tractor on pneumatics. They used to do the rounds topping up the tractors out in the fields with Land Girls to the fore - another scenario for a layout in the 1939-47 period!

TVO was also coloured and gave off a distinctive smell from the exhaust!

The first really cheap and successful diesel tractor was the Fordson Major Diesel introduced in 1951 - a later model is seen in that photo above. It effectively killed off the spark ignition TVO tractor!

[earlswood nob]

G'day all
Thanks St J for the information.
So my Dad was telling it straight, it wasn't one of his straight faced teases for which he was infamous, as was his father.
Earlswood nob

[Saint Johnstoun]

Secret. My Grandfather and Uncle had a farm in Leicestershire where we used to holiday from Scotland. They had a TVO Fordson Major that I cut my teeth on - later I had my own TVO Fordson and Fordson Major tractors for a number of years before my writings on the subject took up more time than the real thing. If you use the search engine on your computer to look up Allan T Condie you will see just how many of those blessed books on tractors I wrote!

Relaxing now with railways as my main hobby!

St J.