2750 (Tom's) Workbench-North Eastern Modelling 1938

[Tom F]

Is it the same tender that is found behind the B16? If that is like what the B15 has then Arthur will have it. Haven't got my books to hand.

What is the chassis like?

[mick b]

Need to check on tender. Chassis is two lumps of brass from the dark ages, no idea if DJH have updated but i doubt it

[Tom F]

Need to check on tender. Chassis is two lumps of brass from the dark ages, no idea if DJH have updated but i doubt it

Mine will be two lumps of brass then seen as it's the older kit.
This is it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271232155097? ... 1497.l2649

[ArthurK]

The tenders behind C6s, C7s and the later Q6s, Q7s and B16s were all of the same nominal capacity of 4125 gallons. However there were numerous detail differences.

The original C6/C7 tenders were not self trimming and were 7'5" wide. These tenders were distinguished from the later self trimming tenders by the 'D' shaped frame cut-outs with smaller cut-outs front and rear. These frames were the same as those of the 3940 gallon tenders. This style of 4125 gallon tender also ran behind the D21.

When the design was changed to the self trimming type the tender width was increased to 7' 10". The outside frames of these had oval cut-outs and lacked cut-outs at front and rear. From there on things get messy. The plated coal rails had the characteristic reflex bend at front and rear but unlike the earlier tender they did not extend far beyond the coal space. Then the 1917 batch of tenders on the Q6s the coal rails were cut off abruptly behind the rear coal plate. C7 2202 was the subject of oil fired trials and had the coal plate extended back to the tank filler to hide the oil tank.

Just to confuse things further a well meaning driver/fireman suggested that the self trimming tenders behind the later Q6s could be put to better use behind the earlier C7s. This was duly carried out. The result was that the earlier non self trimming tenders on the C7s disappeared to be replaced by whatever tender was available from the Q6s so we could have the normal style coal rails, the cut off coal rails or the extended rails behind 2202.

I can only say that a photograph of the loco that wish to model is essential if you want an accurate build.

The B16s and Q7s retained self trimming tenders throughout their lives although there was some interchange between B16 and Q7 in late BR days. The Q7s were never fitted with water pickup gear.

This is not the complete story just a summary of the main events.

I can recommend the Isinglass drawings 376 (C6), 377 (C7) and 414 Ex NER 4125 gallon tenders.

The LNER 'Green books' and the Yeadon's Registers give further detail.

As regards my own tenders the 3940 gallon tender is available. These ran behind the B13s, B14s, B15 and the D20. I will have the "standard" self trimming 4125 gallon tender with the Q7. This has already been test built by myself and by Jonathan Wealleans. The latter is to run behind his A2.

There is no real reason why this tender kit shouldn't be brought forward if there is sufficient demand.

ArthurK

[Tom F]

Thanks Arthur, the C7 I wish to do is No 717....just from observations it appears to be a standard 4125 tender, with the coal rails ending abruptly where the coal space ends. Due to copyright I shall not upload a photo, but a photo is found on page 23 of LNER in colour.

I see the cylinders are incorrect on the model as the DJH kit shows the whole cylinder under the running plate where as on the real thing only half the cylinder was visible under the running plate. Whether this is possible to amend I do not know.

This afternoon I have been renumbering the donor loco 4475 'Flying Fox' into 2548 'Galtee More' of Grantham Shed.

I've used pressfix Sheet No 4. Very crisp and sharp transfers, and in my opinion, better than their BR numbers.
Buffer beam numbers will be done this evening.

Cheers

[mick b]

If ? you can raise the cylinders it will help get her round curves as it all looks very tight. Probobably not viable but i havent checked.

The Alexander Tender I have will make either of the C7 versions which used the square at rear end or curved coal plates versions. It doesnt come with brake gear a way around that is to buy the 52F Models tender chassis. Probably cheaper to wait for Arthurs Tender if you are in no rush.

Good summing up by Arthur thanks from me

[Tom F]

Well I'm in no hurry to start the C7, it's just the fact it was at a good price I decided to go for it.
Plenty to think about though.

Front buffer beam number in place. Do I bother replacing Hornby's 'No' or leave it? I will be giving it a coat of Klear and light weathering to tone it down.

[ArthurK]

Tom

717 received tender from a Q6 in 8/32. This was as you say the abrupt style. It changed from Westinghouse to steam brake at the same shopping. It was altered from steam reverse to screw reverse in 4/35. If your modelling it in late thirties it will be srcrew reverse. That and the lack of Westinghouse are the biggest visible differences.

You could lift the cylinders by filing the top flat but I am not familiar with the DJH castings. From what I have heard the Tender is pretty awful. I presume the Alexander tender is from his Q7. You may have to add water pickup gear unless he has has assumed that all 4126 tenders had that, they didn't!

ArthurK

[ArthurK]

I missed one other tender style. 2163-2172 had the non self trimming style but they had the later frames with oval cut-outs and the newer style toolbox.

These tenders are a mine field for the unwary.

ArthurK

[Tom F]

Arthur, I've been looking into C7/2 732 also, as a likely candidate for 1938 Leaman Road. This appears to have a different tender with coal rails extending to the rear of the tender.

Is this a different type?

[Tom F]

Quick question regarding A1/A3 nameplates. When adding the new plate, do you overlay directly on top of the hornby plate, and if the plate is shorter than the old, cut away the excess on the old plate for the new one to adhere to?

[ArthurK]

Tom

I assume that's the tender from 2202. Don' foget that 732 was rebuilt to C7/2 in Dec 33 wyrh "Hunt" front end and raised footplate. I saw that regularly at York and Hull.

You will a big rebuild with that one!

ArthurK

[Tom F]

Tom

I assume that's the tender from 2202. Don' foget that 732 was rebuilt to C7/2 in Dec 33 wyrh "Hunt" front end and raised footplate. I saw that regularly at York and Hull.

You will a big rebuild with that one!

ArthurK

Yep I'm already thinking of how to tackle that one. It might be a case that with her I employ a professional to scratch build her for me.

Arthur, I'd you don't mind me asking, was it the late 30s when you were spotting? Was loco changes similar to how they were in BR days, I.e Grantham, Doncaster, Gateshead and Heaton Pacifics turning up at York?

[Tom F]

Decided to replace the N o on the buffer beam as it didn't match the pressfix one.

Hopefully the plates will be here tomorrow, then she will be ready for weathering. Intend to have a close look at that photo of 'Colour Rails' in the Big Four in Colour, and hopefully can recreate the shot on the layout.

Cheers

[ArthurK]

Tom

Yes I am old nut not quite that old! My uncle started on the industrial locos at Blaydon Burn, then a spell at Blaydon shed. In the thirties he moved to Tweedmouth. It was the late thirties that I spent holidays with them. Their home was below the entrance to the Royal Border Bridge and we could see all that passed over it. I wouldn't call it train spotting but my cousins and I were interested in all that was going on. In particular were did see the "Coronation" several times. The other vivid memory was the Sentinal Railcar "Royal Charlotte" which was assigned to Tweedmouth at that time.

My uncle was then moved to Hull at the height of the hostilities. It was from around 1943 that I started holidaying there. By that time my interest was well and truly kindled. My younger cousin and I spent literally hours by the lineside at Hull Botanic Gardens shed and Hessle station. We saw all the comings ang goings from Paragon at the former and all the traffic to Doncaster and Sheffield at the latter. Then there trips by ferry to New Holland, Grimsby and Cleethorpes. Happy days! Oh and yes my cousin always met me on York station to spend a few hours there before heading to Hull.

Now back on thread it was during these days that we saw many of the Atlantics (including the GN ones) and both the C7/2s. My cousin assures me that 732 altough in black was running with one green wheel! That would give the onlookers something to talk about.

I must stop there otherwise I will be accused of hogging your thread to publish my memoirs.

And yes Grantham was the normal loco changeover for Newcastle-Lomdon trains. as a result KX Pacifics were not too common in Newcatle except on the non-srtops.

ArthurK