Toram beg...again!

[caliwag]

Greetings: Just bought a reasonably copy of 'Enginemen Elite' by Toram Beg from an online used book site.
Not yet received but I wonder if anyone can give me info about his date of birth and period working at Haymarket.

In the news just now is the potential speeding up of Glasgow to Edinburgh timings to 43 minutes! As it happens the pair of 27s on a rake of Mk2s seemed to do it around 43-45 mins in the 70s. I have found that in 1949, the fastest was around 65 minutes. However when would Toram Beg have been driving D31/2s (Directors)? In his October 1956 Trains Illustrated article, TB talks of taking 10 minutes of the first run from Edinburgh...a great article. So, when would that have been and what was the standard timing? Grateful thanks for a superb forum btw.

Jim

[Solario]

An excellent book, I can recommend it to all. An engineman's story in his own words.

Norman McKillop, aka Toram Beg, started working at Haymarket in North British days - 1910. His dob would be in the mid 1890s, I don't think he mentions his age in the book.

I cannot add any information about Glasgow-Edinburgh timings, there may be something in the book but I can't remember. I do know that he once drove a D49, Aberdeenshire, I seem to think, from Newcastle to Edinburgh with OS Nock on board who published the timings which were quite remarkable.

There is also a good description of how one of his colleagues achieved a non-stop run to Kings X at the time the ECML was closed & trains were being diverted via Galashiels.

[caliwag]

Excellent, many thanks Solario: looking forward to the book. Less than £10 on ABE inc p+p, which is great value when they seem to be over £30 on ebay! Check out his many fascinating articles in the 50s Trains Illustrated with repostes, which he clearly enjoyed, by '45671'.

[ten ten]

Just tried Ancestry- little available as detailed Scottish records are not available on this site., however there is a record of a Norman McKillop born ca 1892 living near Edinburgh St Michael in 1901, and a death in Haymarket 1978.

[65447]

There has been some recent comment in the Gresley Observer, since amplified in Vintage LNER, that 'Toram Beg's' recollections and observations do not necessarily co-incide with the known facts. For example he states that he was the driver on a particular locomotive working but it has been subsequently realised that he was not and could not have been. His derogatory comments about the Class P2 locomotives have over time become treated as gospel but there is actually little substance to support them. No doubt now that suspicions have been aroused any further investigation may well uncover more discrepancies.

In that regard I would tend to categorise his writings as mixed fiction/non-fiction, with possibly a touch of fantasy.

[v3man]

Harry Knox in his book Haymarket Motive Power Depot, Edinburgh also finds some of Toram Beg's writings do not fully agree with what others wrote, in particular, although he described the P2s as harsh riding O S Nock described them as riding smoothly and comfortably. He also described the GNR D1 as 'useless' which contradicted reports by C J Allen and R H N Hardy who published reports of 'remarkable work' and 'good work'.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

A lot of the Scottish drivers complained about the GN D1's, as they though they were GN 'cast offs' because the weren't any good, forgetting the fact they'd been handling GN mainline trains for almost 20 years. I will admit the spartan GN cab, may have had something to do with there thinking!

manna

[pete2hogs]

It's important to remember he was writing a book of reminiscences for entertainment, not attempting a definitive work of history.

And different people can , quite reasonably, have different opinions. Look at the reception of the Britannia's on the Western and the Great Eastern for example. Many people put that down to prejudice on behalf of the GW, but there they were replacing Castles and Kings, not B1's - class 7 and 8 power instead of class 5's.

[52D]

The Scots called them ponies and other more unprintable terms but bearing in mind they replaced some good indigenous classes, I must revisit mannas thread as I could just about justify one.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

I can see it now, a D1 piloting an A3, pounding through Berwick, and the A3 trying to keep up with a homeward bound Geordie on the D1

manna