Distant Signal query.

[Bryan]

I have a query.
Where a Distant Signal is mounted on the same post as a Home Signal
I was under the impression that the Distant would be released by the Signal Box ahead, Is this correct?

The signal in the photo is at Newbridge LC on the NYMR and in this situation there is no box ahead.
So how does this work in this situation?

[Mickey]

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[cambois]

Bryan

You are correct, but there is always an exception! At Linlithgow in the pre- Edinburgh Power Box days the down outer home was at the east end of the loop, with the splitting signal for the down loop and the main line. this was a long way from the inner home which was at the west end of the loop, so there was a distant signal under the outer home, for the inner home. In effect the reverse of the IB situation.

I think it was a bit of an E&G rareity but others may know better

[Mickey]

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[StevieG]

Bryan, I agree with both the posts; the first by Micky mentioning level crossings and Intermediate Block signals, and that by cambois.

You are correct in that a Distant signal under a stop signal, as you have pictured, would normally be worked by a signal box ahead (in direction of travel) of the box working the stop signal.

Bearing in mind that I am not familiar with NYMR geography and installations; -
1.- Micky's point that the Distant in this sort of configuration might instead be worked by a level crossing keeper is also right, by means of a ground frame (GF : In open-air; or covered, of small box/cabin appearance : The GWR called them 'Crossing Frame').
2.- I think that there might still be, or would at one time have been, some examples of the converse if a crossing GF located before a signal box was protected by its own stop signal - a lower Distant below the stop signal would then be worked by the 'main' signal box.

Micky's description of the signalling for an Intermediate Block (IB) section is also correct. This is where more than one Block Section has been created between two signal boxes, and at the boundary of one section and the next, there is a stop (Home) signal with an applicable Distant somewhere 'in Rear' (on the Home's approach side), in the same way as if there was a separate signal box there, but instead the IB signals are worked from another box.
3.- Customarily the box which works IB signals is located before reaching them, -
4.- - but there have been a few examples of IB signals worked by the box 'in Advance' (i.e. the box being located somewhere after passing them).

5.- The Linlithgow example which cambois quotes is another situation where there was a stop and Distant signal one above the other, but only one control location (signal box) working both of them.

I know of two locations on southern ex-LNE territory (Sandy, and Welwyn Garden City), of similar arrangements, employing what were at some time termed 'accelerating Distants' (respectively; S: two under the Up Main Home north of the station for the two possible routes at the divergence at the start of the Up Slow, some 600 yards beyond; and WGC: one below the Up Fast Second Home, for the UF Starter a good half-mile nearer London).

Apologies for waffling on too much. Getting back to the NYMR photo, if I understand correctly (there is a signal box before the signals but not one fairly close beyond them?), then I can only imagine that scenarios 1. or 3. above would explain the situation.

[ten ten]

As I understand it, this is the semaphore section signal for entry into the track circuit block single line( there is no token) controlled by the adjacent New Bridge box, remaining signals being colour light, the clearance of the stop signal is authority to enter the section,the clearance of the semaphore distant indicates the next signal is showing a proceed aspect- i e yellow or green.

[Mickey]

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[ten ten]

Thats about it,if the next one is at red, the distant would not be cleared. The single line to and including Pickering station is controlled by New Bridge,colour light and TSB.

[Bryan]

Found this signalling layout drawing after a bit of hunting.
It may illustrate the query.

[StevieG]

Found this signalling layout drawing after a bit of hunting.
It may illustrate the query.

Thanks Brian. That helps a lot.

Looks to me like the area that's entirely within New Bridge box's signals is rather like a Track Circuit Block-signalled area with most signals of colour-light type.

So the combination of the Distant and stop signal arms in the photo mean that, as confirmed by your diagram, the signal is the semaphore equivalent of having another Red/Yellow/Green colour-light signal in that position : - On the diagram the Distant arm is labelled "19R" where 'R' means 'repeater', indicating that the arm repeats next signal, No.19, by showing caution when 19 is Red and probably rises to 'Clear' when 19 is 'off' (Yellow or Green).

But it would also be possible that the Distant's clearing additionally needs signal 18 'off' as well, which would make 19R, in effect, a sort of 'master' Distant showing whether the road all the way into Pickering station is clear or not.
If so, it could be asked "Then why isn't it labelled something like '19/18R' or '19R/18R'?". I believe there have been some instances in the country where policy has/had been that such a signal is labelled only with reference to the first-reached signal that it repeats.

[ten ten]

Signal 18 protects the High Mill AOL,and in addition to signallers clearance, has to be activated by the timed approach treadle before a yellow proceed aspect can be shown, ensuring trains cross the AOL at the right speed. A Moors signaller would probably explain this better.

[R. pike]

Distants worked by the same box as the stop arm above them were quite common..

[Mickey]

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[R. pike]

95/96 and 98/99 are a couple more examples..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/8 ... 782450647/

[Mickey]

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