Codes for Passenger Stock

[JohnV]

Thank you all very much. Fantastic, fellas. ....and, yes, perhaps this topic would merit being a "sticky".

[1H was 2E]

Just noticed this..... The official BR "Telegraphic Codes" included a list of passenger stock codes. This should represent the 'official' version but it was updated by sticking the revised sheet over the old one, and the revisions were undated, so it only represents one particular moment in time. I recall that in an early post 1948 'RO' (and I'm not that old, but I've amassed a lot of RO's and SLS journals from steam railway secondhand bookshops where the sellers are normally glad to see them gone and the price is always low - they are an undervalued resource) there was an early BR list which included a lot more subdivisions e.g. for artic stock. I'll dig them out and do some checking. PS Does anyone else remember telegraphic codes? e.g. FUNCO 10.00 Euston - does this conjure up a group of joke-cracking inebriates in clown costume blowing party poopers to be met off the train? How wrong could you be........

[1H was 2E]

I've now located the RO article - it was on page 212 of the November 1948 mag. The codes are identical to those listed by Mark T and presumably both articles came from the same official source. The RO has the following additional information "Standard codes for identifying passenger rolling stock will be used on all regions as from 1/1/49. In readiness for this date, codes are already being painted on vehicles in 1 1/2 " letters on the left hand bottom corner of the ends of corridor stock and the sides of non-corridor stock". Slightly ambiguous but means left hand bottom corner of the sides of non-corridor stock. The latter is definitely to be seen in photos. Of course, at this time the running number appeared at the left hand side of the coach. Points I don't understand are (i) it refers to corridor and non-c whereas it seems to mean gangwayed and non-g - e.g. there were Thomsons that had corridors (to the lavatory) but not gangways and these were surely CL etc not CK and (ii) whilst saying that artics were preceded by twin etc. then gave RTS as a code for a triple. Why was it not preceded by "Triple" and what does the "S" stand for???? The RO goes on to say "Code for type of gangway fitted Pullman Gangway (PG) British Standard (BS) or B-S with Pullman adaptors (A) will not appear on the vehicles - (A) later did on ex LMS stock. Also; TSO referred to 2+2 seating on BR Standards, LMS opens with 2+2 when I knew them always seemed to be SO. Hope this is of interest. Proves "the more you find out the less you know" (60's song). PS why did the S Region build Mk 1 open seconds (when it was 1/3rd) for international 2nd class through tickets via Southern ports, but the ER only had 1/3 to Harwich?

[65447]

Thanks Mark!

Stephen: Could do, but I'll change the title.

I'm against acquiring too many 'sticky' threads. So down the road I'll include a coach code list when I add coaching rolling stock, and then de-sticky this thread


Richard

Having noted the misapplication of the telegraphic codes for the coaching rolling stock in publications past and present and in other places, and the interest generated in this thread, I am given to understand that it is the intention of the LNER Society to publish the complete list of the official LNER and early BR telegraphic codes in the June issue of its Journal, and that it will also include a comparison table that cross-references the old and new codes and highlights the differences in usage, together with a glossary of LNER carriage terminology.

As the Journal is for members of the LNER Society only, the information could later be made available to Richard should he wish to include it within his encyclopedia, with the appropriate acknowledgement of the source.

The LNER Society list is obviously only applicable to LNER stock, so anyone interested in the codes added by BR following introduction of the BR standard (Mk 1) coaches and subsequently will still need to refer to other sources.

[1H was 2E]

Don't want to 'hog' this thread but I can amplify StevieG's sleeper code notes. I accept that a full code list is on its way, but there's detail behind the codes. SLSTP; the T stands for Twin (berth). Third class sleepers were introduced (LMS/LNE/GW) 9/28 and were initially 4 berth, so presumably SLT. The later ones (eg LMS M600sM ) were twin berth and were SLS(T) from personal observation. The Harris book also mentions LNE postwar twin and double 3rd cabins with different codes. Of course, 1st had one berth per cabin, with lockable doors between cabins for couples. BR MK1s were built as SLF, SLC, SLSTP and SLEP. These all had the same internal layout as far as cabins and attendants' compartments went and there was no separate pantry. Food and drinks were stored in the attendants' compartments and these all seemed to be identical so I don't understand why only the seconds have a 'P'. The 'Either' had two bunks but the upper one could be folded away to make single berth for first. I have an idea that the MK3's were all identical with convertible berths. It might be worth mentioning that (from limited first hand charting experience) the policy was for double occupancy of 2nd class cabins even when there was more capacity than clients. But same gender only......

[65447]

Thanks Mark!

Stephen: Could do, but I'll change the title.

I'm against acquiring too many 'sticky' threads. So down the road I'll include a coach code list when I add coaching rolling stock, and then de-sticky this thread


Richard

Since the list was from a source dated 1954 it was before Third Class was re-rated as Second Class, which in turn much later became Standard Class.

The Tourist classification was used by the LNER and, primarily, BR(E) and BR(NE) for stock having 2+2 seating across the aisle, rather than the more spacious 2+1 seating typically used in conjunction with catering cars. Bucket seats had in the main been replaced by standard seating but may have lingered in the genuine LNER Tourist stock.

BR had a habit of changing codes, especially for catering and non-passenger carrying stock, so any code list only represents a snapshot in time. New codes/letters were added as necessary as coaching stock and passenger facilities developed.

I think I have supplied this previously, but I will send Richard a translation table between the LNER and early BR codes that was compiled by myself with Robert Carroll (also of this Parish and owner of the BRcoachingstock Yahoo! Group) and published in the LNER Society Journal.

[richard]

Thanks - the translation table is now in the Rolling Stock: Carriages section:

https://www.lner.info/stock/carriages/index.php