GNR permanent way

[Tim Allsopp]

Can anyone tell me where I might find information about the permanent way used by the GNR?
Thanks in advance.
Tim

[jwealleans]

Without wanting to sound fatuous, the Great Northern Society?

They're not very big online, but they have some very useful and detailed publications. Can't help you specifically on Pway, but they'd be my first port of call.

[Tim Allsopp]

That was my first port of call but I couldn't find any information about permanent way on their web site.

[jwealleans]

No, that doesn't surprise me. I'd contact them if I were you.

[R. pike]

Have a look at this..

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -drawings/

If you want the photo's directly drop me a PM with an email address..

[Tim Allsopp]

Thanks for the link to RMWeb.Do you have any information about the type of chairs the GNR used?
Tim

[john coffin]

one of the other members of the GNR had a chair, but it was a somewhat later version, ie post 1910 I think,
and I have a rather rubbish photo I took about 10 years ago which I can email, should you wish.
checking out the photos, a couple, in particular the last two, are somewhat out of focus.
shame you could not get them scanned by a printer, into pdf format. where do you intend to archive these rather useful documents?
Paul

[micknich2003]

Try joining the Yahoo "Trackwork Group". Some years ago, I wanted info on Hull & Barnsley Rly P Way, and within twenty minutes of joining the group, I had a lot of info/links etc. Mick.

[swhite01]

"They're not very big online, but they have some very useful and detailed publications. Can't help you specifically on Pway, but they'd be my first port of call."

I act as the Southern Exhibitions officer for the GNRS. We do have a website which is currently in the process of being updated, I believe.

http://www.gnrs.150m.com/index.html

For members of the GNRS we now have a Yahoo Forum running, with varied topics being covered.

With regards to publications, unfortunately, there are no society documents covering trackwork or installations. The documents offered are generally rolling stock, carriage and wagon.. timetables, PTT and WTT and general historical documents. The GNRS documents are available to members and non-members.

We have an exhibit at the Alexandra Palace exhibition in a couple of weeks, I will have a stock of documents which are available to Members and non-members.

Apologies to the Mods for the plug but GNRS are mentioned in a couple of threads recently so thought I would put my head above the parapet!.. there are quite a few members on the Forum.

Steve White

[2512silverfox]

It is a long shot but it might be worth contacting the HMRS who have among their members many experts on lesser investigated matters.

[watcheronthebridge]

With regards to publications, unfortunately, there are no society documents covering trackwork or installations.

One of the potential contemporary sources of this information are the Ministry of Transport accident reports.

An example is the MOT report on the derailment on 20th August, 1937 between Hindolvestone and Guestwick on the Melton Constable-Norwich single line branch of tbe Midland and Great Northern Joint Line. On page 2 of this report it states "...The permanent way was of old Great Northern type, laid new in 1903. The rails, 30 ft. in length, weighed 85 lbs. per yard when new... There were 12 sleepers per rail length, of creosoted fir, 8 ft. 6 ins. and 9 ft. by 10 ins. by 5 ins....". The mix of the two sleeper lengths was the result of 'spot' re-sleepering where the earlier GNR 9 ft. (actually 8 foot 11 ins) long sleepers were replaced with the shorter ones which became the later standard.

This report can be downloaded from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docume ... ck1937.pdf.

Some information about permanent way practice on the Great Northern in the period from around the turn of the century down to 1923 can be deduced from the report on the accident which took place early in the LNER period at Retford on the former Great Northern main line on 13 February 1923. There is a sombre aspect to some of these accident reports and this is one of them since it did involve the loss of three railwaymen on the footplate of the locomotive on the Aberdeen sleeping car express. That aside, this report details that the permanent way of the up and down main and up goods lines was badly damaged over lengths of from 50 to 100 yards. It even details the rails and sleepers that needed to be replaced "...5 45 feet 95 lb. section rails bent, 4 30 feet 85 lb. section rails bent, 196 common and six joint chairs broken ... 94 ordinary and 3 joint sleepers damaged..." It is likely that the 45 feet sections would have been the two main lines and the 30 feet sections were from the goods line. By this time the Great Northern used joint sleepers and chairs sparingly. The joint sleepers were 12 ins wide by 6 ins deep and fitted with a heavier duty chair instead of the normal 'common' chair. Since not many joint sleepers or chairs were involved the main line was probably 45 feet sections of plain track with the standard 18 sleepers to the length, all of which would have been the 'ordinary' 10ins width by 5ins depth. Both types of sleeper were most likely to have been the Great Northern nominal 9 foot length.

This report can be downloaded from http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docume ... rd1923.pdf.

The content of the Retford accident report plus some newspaper photographs from the time can viewed on this web page http://www.bnnrs.net/1923.html.

[hq1hitchin]

Tim

Might be worth contacting the Permanent Way Institution, who have been going strong since GNR days:

http://permanentwayinstitution.com/

[Tim Allsopp]

Thankyou Watcher and everyone else who has replied to my question about GNR permanent way.I now have enough information to start track laying but I'm still looking for information about GNR point levers,as used in goods yards.I've searched for RTR/kits for these point levers,without any luck.After looking through several books I found a few photo's of the point levers in GNR Engine Sheds Vol.2,but a drawing would be better,if anyone has one!!

Tim

[watcheronthebridge]

...I'm still looking for information about GNR point levers,as used in goods yards...

I did find a photograph that might be helpful both in terms of points levers and how the GNR permanent way looked, it is here http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/resu ... &itemx=178.

[2512silverfox]

I am not sure if he still does them but Danny Pinnock of D&S Models sold a set of white metal GN manual point levers and MSE do the swivelling mechanical ones.