GNR Signals

[Iron Duke]

My knowledge on signalling is pretty sparse as you will gather from my question.
I always associate somersault signals with the GWR so what factor dictated why this type was used at a particular location. E.G. this one a Stoke tunnel? I also seem to remember one at Ratcliffe on Soar (LMR) adjacent to what is now East Midlands Parkway (pre power station days).

ID

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Somersault signals on the GWR, (cough, splutter, hurumpf !) GN, old boy some of the lesser known railways followed the GN, in there choice of signalling, also a few colonial railways had them, inc, Western Australian Government Railways.

I can remember seeing only 'one' somersault in the flesh and still in use, and that was at Holme in the yard and probably protected traffic either going onto or off the Ramsey branch, that would have been in early 1971, I think the branch was closed that year.

There were quite a few around Skeggie, Louth and Boston, sorry can't give you a date when the last ones went out of use, or where, but I bet someone will know, There's nowhere better,

manna

[micknich2003]

Somersault signals were used by several of the Welsh Railways and with out checking I think also in Ireland, and plus of course our former Colonyies. Mick.

[Iron Duke]

Thank you for this information gents.
My question is why they were installed at a particular location (sorry for mentioning the unmentionable )

ID

[Andy W]

I think there may be some confusion here between "Lower Quadrant" signals, as used by the GWR and "Somersault", as used by the GN.

Rather than trying to explain it all here, may I suggest that you try the excellent website "The Signal Box" and have a look around, especially in the Signals section. It really is worth a look - it's a top site.

p.s. Boston Docks Swing Bridge has the last somersault, as far as I know. The last ones on the running lines were out towards Skeg.

[Boris]

Surely somersaults were the G.N.R.s only signal for years until they were replaced by upper quadrants in L.N.E.R.and B.R. days.

They were supposed to be vertical in the OFF position but usually finished up as in the picture or slightly more at an angle which was acceptable.

I well remember the display on the up line at Retford North as being a 'Poggy' man they were the first I ever saw.

Later when working 'Skeggy' specials and excursions there were plenty still in use.

I believe there are one or two still in use on The North Norfolk Rly.

[strang steel]

G'Day Gents

<snip>

There were quite a few around Skeggie, Louth and Boston, sorry can't give you a date when the last ones went out of use, or where, but I bet someone will know, There's nowhere better,

manna

As far as I remember, virtually all the signals between Sleaford and Skegness were somersault in the early 1960s, but they began to be replaced by upper quadrants late in that decade and through the 1970s.

However, a few did survive into the 1980s - here is one at Bellwater Junc. in 1983.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47422047@N07/4500681433/

I think the last main line survivor was in the Wainfleet/Havenhouse area.

[StevieG]

Hi ID,
Have to agree with Andy W and Boris here.

It was the standard GNR signal for a long time (said to have been designed by an unrewarded chap working in a relatively minor job at Hitchin, following the Abbotts Ripton disaster of the 1870s when signal arms, then procedurally normally put to Clear when Block sections were clear, and pivoted in slotted-posts, became snow-blocked/frozen in that position during atrocious winter conditions, and stayed that way when supposed to have gone back to Danger by signalman's correct and necessary action).

The desire to remove as far as possible the risk of recurrence went beyond the general major design-change trend which put the signal arms pivoting on the outside of the post instead of in a slot, to the 'somersault' design having the arm pivot on a bracket, away from the post entirely, and put the pivot point in the arm's centre (but slightly above its horizontal centre line, so that in the event of operating linkage failure while at Clear it would still return to Danger by its own centre of gravity).

As others have also said 'somersaults' were to be found on some Welsh railways, and outside these shores (including some in the IoM?).

A Peterborough-Skegness trip in 1975 revealed at least 11 examples extant 'east' of Boston, including the bonus of Wainfleet's Up Distant which was such a veteran that it had a substantial wooden post rather than the oft-encountered lattice or concrete posts, and, with the arm at the top, its spectacle plate and glassses were still about halfway down the post!
Plus, then, about 5 at Boston Docks Swing Bridge cabin.

And isn't there a smaller size example, still, on 'The Cob' at Porthmadog (Festiniog Railway) ?

[Mickey]

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[Iron Duke]

This is truly an education, thanks for the feedback and link to the signal site etc.
I have attached a bit of information from a site similar to the above, what a myriad of styles.
More reading is required..........

[Mickey]

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[adge]

Doesn't T G Hepburn's famous 1937 photo of 'Grand Parade' (driving leaning well out of cab to get the right away) depict somersault signals at Grantham? Haven't got it to hand so can't be sure.
The ss signal I remember best was the one coming east of Basford North giving access to the infamous 'Rat Hole' tunnel - it was still there when the line closed in the mid sixties.

[micknich2003]

The attached detail drawing may be of interest. Mick.

[micknich2003]

Who's the comedian who drew the signal sketches with the stop arm "On" and the distant "Off"? Mick.

[StevieG]

Who's the comedian who drew the signal sketches with the stop arm "On" and the distant "Off"? Mick.

Indeed. Otherwise quite pretty drawings though, bearing in mind that when some of those featured first came into use, the distant arms would've been red as well.