Atlantic's works: Portable layout - Scenic details next

[auldreekie]

Pebbles,

Another clanger headed off! With luck it was a verbal rather than an actual clanger, since I was pontificating from memory of a task currently shelved whilst other things are done. I WOULD (...er...wouldn't I?) have dug out drawings and photos before getting the remains out of the shoebox....

(It is to be hoped.)

Grateful.

Just seen Atlantic's chimney wheeze, which crossed with my response. I do like the "ambiguity" point -- make the old brains do a bit of work synthesising the right answer when looking at the finished product. In the land of narrow-gauge modelling (well, parts of it), this would be regarded as desirable cunning of an advanced sort....

auldreekie

[Atlantic 3279]

Sorry about the LMS intrusion, I should have warned those of a sensitive disposition. Fear not though, and LMS modellers with ridiculous views on the "complete lack of necessity for 3 cylinder drive except on the largest Pacifics" won't be getting a chimney from ME!

Masters on L, copies R:

I reckon the taller Robinson chimney suits all original manifestations of the GC medium sized 4-6-0s, Atlantics, O4s and S1s.

The short one is okay for early and late interpretations of the big boilered 4-6-0s, early O5s, O4/7s, later period D11s and eventually the, D10s and L1(L3) tank engines.

I also feel tempted to do the 1' 5.5" later Gorton pattern for the medium sized 4-6-0s, Atlantics, O4s, reboileredB9s, late30s D9s and S1/1 No 6172 (9902).

The second half of the mould for another slightly Dodgy item (an LMS smokebox door) is also setting as I type. All should be okay with that one.

Now I must turn my attention is earnest to re-gauging that A1/1, as the postman brought me a package from Gibson's on Friday. More good service, as when I spoke top Colin on Monday he said he hasd to make some more EM conversion sets before I could have one.

[Manxman1831]

My dad did tell me that the LMS 2-6-4 T with three-cylinders was only just as powerful as the two-cylinder equivalent, and cost more, which was why they went back to two-cylinder 2-6-4 T's. Also, a little thing about there not being as great a saving in weight between the two. Makes you wonder why 2500 was saved for York.

[Horsetan]

What I would really welcome is a standard (not tall) chimney and dome for the N2......

[Atlantic 3279]

I shall consult the books/drawings, check my stock, and see what I can do.

[Atlantic 3279]

Tentative work last night certainly stretched my mind as I began my combined first attempts to,
1. Wheel-up with Gibson coupled wheels
2. Use the Gibson crankpin system (finding out what I could and couldn't do with it the process)
3. Allow for a "proper" EM conversion
4. Accommodate Walschaerts valve gear too.

I'll let you know how I got on when there's something useful to say / show.

[Atlantic 3279]

Not a full report yet, but some titbits: seeking to minimise the need to have wheels on and off axles, I spent a bit of time initilally trying to work out by measurement how many washers I ought to need on each axle to space out the wheels and control the side play. I was having real difficulty making sense of the figures, until I measured the axle lengths, just to be sure, and then compared them against some other "known" EM axles in my stock too. Gibsons had bowled me a googly by packing P4 length axles with my EM conversion 6' 8" wheels. This led to time-wasting digression No 1 - shorten axles to avoid having to delay work waiting for an exchange!
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've now got wheel-sets pressed onto axles with the necessary bearings and spacing washers, the quartering is set up nicely (I'll explain how I did this without de-luxe tools later), the holes in the rods have been adapted by soldering in washers and I've worked out how to use the crankpins including a method I'm happy with for creating the necessarily "flush" fitting for the leading crankpin. The wheels and rods are on and all rotate freely, without any binding or lumpiness when the keeper plates are off and the wheelsets are rotated by hand. The same applies when the chassis is run under power as either a front-half or rear-half 0-4-0 with the keeper plate held in place by hand. I've still got problems to address though as once the six coupled unit is linked up with keeper plate screwed firmly in place it's all still a bit too "tight", making the motor labour. It may be as little as lack of lubrication on the new axles, or I may still have to open up clearances a bit. My metal axle spacing washers are also catching on the pick-up strips when these are reinstalled! I've called time for this evening, as I believe a fresh mind tomorrow will achieve more than a late-night battle tonight.

If it's warm and dry enough tomorrow I might also manage to get some green paint on that A2/2......

[will5210]

I'm looking forward to seeing your way of adapting the rods/gear to the gibson wheels. I've been putting it off for a while on a K3/K4 (as you may recall from rmweb) but really must crash on & get it done.

cheers

[Atlantic 3279]

Colin mentioned to me on the phone when ordering my wheels that he does some turned bushes to suit what he described as the "ginormous" holes in Bachmann rods. Maybe you need some of those for simplicity? For the Hornby rods, I found I had no washers of a perfect size to solder into the holes, but slices of 3/32" brass tube were a nice fit in the holes and on the standard crankpin bushes. It seemed easiest to me to solder the un-cut tube squarely into the hole from the "inside" face of the rod, then saw off and file flush. I could see potential for annoying little problems in trying to cut, insert, and solder accurately a number off thin free slices of tube.....

[earlswood nob]

G'day all
I used the same method to reuse some old Romford wheels (Markits are getting expensive). I had broken crankpins in a couple, so drilled them out, fitted a length of tubing in the hole, cut to size, then tapped the tubing 10BA. A drop of Loctite fixed the new crankins in place, and I've saved £30 (well only £11 really, but four 24mm wheels are not much use for a LNER fan, unless you model the GNoSR etc).
Earlswood Nob

[Atlantic 3279]

It turns out that I wasn't entirely right about the EM axle spacing washers catching on the pick-up strips on the converted A3 chassis of that A1/1, but I was right about the value of a fresh mind on the job the following day. It almost immediately became obvious to me that both the general stiffness of the fully reassembled chasis, and the restricted notchy / twangy sideplay that I could feel in the wheelsets were actually due to something more basic. The moulded plastic brakeshoes of the re-used chassis bottom plate were snagging and rubbing on the gauge-widened wheel flanges. On paring back the brake blocks the running of the chassis was immediately almost perfect. I hit exactly the same problem when I reassembled the tender with its EM wheelsets. I'd remembered to cut extra clearance in the soleplate for the wider wheelsets but hadn't thought about the brake gear....
While I had the chassis bottom plates off the loco again, I also took the opportunity to improve the security of the transplanted drive gear on the middle axle. I'd already tried to mimic the manufacturer's technique of keying the axle, as best I could, by firmly scraping the teeth of a coarse file sideways on the part of the axle on which the gear would fit, but while the chassis was struggling against the brakes I thought I'd sensed the gear slipping a couple of times. I therefore moved the gear aside, keyed the cleaned axle yet more using the teeth of a junior hacksaw, then pushed the gear back into place over a smear of epoxy resin. I hope that does the job, as this loco will have to do heavy service.

Here's a picture to show a couple of the simple methods that I used to help me to quarter the wheels correctly without fancy tools such as a GW wheelpress. I began by placing the un-fitted wheels directly back to back, in pairs. I this state it is perfectly easy to see whether they are accurately quartered. I then put index marks at aligned points on the tread of each set of wheels, using a permanent marker pen. It was simple enough to keep these marks "in register" as I pressed the wheels on gently with a vice. Nothing clever here either. I slightly countersunk the back of the boss on each wheel before I started, and made sure that the shoulders of the axle ends were slightly bevelled, then lubricated the axle end with good old spit, placed it squarely in the lead into the wheel boss and gently tightened the vice in stages, checking as I went by observation that it was going in squarely. Once the axle was fully home I took the axle out of the vice with first wheel on and gave it a twirl to check that it was running true. I found hardly any discrepancies but gave a corrective "tweak" where necessary. Once one wheel was on squarely it was easy enough to add the other, and then to give the wheels a twist if necessary to line the index marks up again (judged "square" by eye) and to adjust the BTB. I aimed for just under 17mm on my vernier. A handy final check for "exact" quartering of each set was made by slotting a piece of 3/32" tube between the spokes of both wheels of each set (it just fitted). The extra length of the tube nicely emphasizes any discrepancy in the quartering:

Here's the loco fully Gibsonised and gauge-widened, without the aid of any size 10.83 boots, still with a fair bit of paint and final detail to sort out. I've deliberately left the front frames off so that I can see what the bogie is doing when it goes for a test run on its intended home. A quick trial at my home on a "mock" 4 foot radius EM curve suggested that I could easily lose much of the sideplay that Hornby build into the front bogie mounting, so you'll see that I've adopted Simon's simple method of turning up the edges of the mounting plate to create clearance for fitting the front frames at true scale width.

The A2/2 also made it into basic BR green by the way, after I'd fathomed out why the airbrush wasn't working. I've now learned that there's a part of my airbrush that I never knew to exist that needs an occasional manual "deep clean".

[mick b]

Good info re the Gibsons .I have never used them because of quartering and the fact I have presumed they are not easy to remove for painting etc.

I now have the bits arrived for Jims Great Northern which is in the pending tray for a while yet

[Woodcock29]

Atlantic

Thanks for info on how you fitted Gibson drivers as I will be using these for my old DJH D6 kit.

Woodcock29

[S.A.C. Martin]

The A2/2 looks absolutely excellent.

I am glad my bit of bodging came in handy. Have tested my first A1/1 on third and fourth radius curves, anything from 3rd and above she will handle happily. Tested the side frame placements a few days ago, have left them off for the moment whilst I finish the cab and tender side sheets. Done the latter, haven't touched the former yet.

[Atlantic 3279]

Always reassuring to see somebody else managing to get the parts to fit and work. It doesn't hurt too badly once you're brave enough to get started, does it? Loco looking nice so far Simon.