Kings Cross

[strang steel]

Thanks Andy.

On looking at some older shots I can work out the orientation, now. It was the car park that confused me, but I had not realised how much had been demolished by then.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Now I know where the German Gym is

Good picture of the Cross, but depressing.

manna

[52D]

G'Day Gents

Now I know where the German Gym is

Good picture of the Cross, but depressing.

manna

Glad you managed to work it out manna my earlier posts must have had you confused.

[StevieG]

(photo) " Taken from the walkway to the Pass Loco portakabins, looking towards the surburban (former 16 and 17). Early to mid 1980's shot with the pass loco largely lifted apart from one line. 16 and 17 have been replaced by a staff car park, .... "

Indeed AW - sure sign that the loco had virtually closed to all intents and purposes; - the then style of 'STOP Await Instructions' board (horizontal red and on a white square) by then provided to protect the handpoints facing to Up movements : When the station area remodel/resignalling was complete in '77, those points, and those from 17 line towards them and the milk dock and those from there back into the Loco, plus new position-light ground signals where all the old solenoid-operated discs had been, were fully-operated from the 1970/71-built power box's new panel.
But in that picture, signals gone, stopboard in place and remaining points altered for hand-only operation on site: An interesting intermediate scene.

[hyperion]

During my too short spell as second man at KGX 1965-1969 I recall an occasion on a Brush4 when we were stopped with - I think, I hope! it was ecs - outside Gasworks and when the board came off we were routed for York Way and the 'hole'. I was out of my seat and preparing to get down to the phone when my driver - who shall remain nameless - gave a chuckle, told me to sit down, said 'if that's what they want', dropped the brake off and away we rolled into the tunnel and so into York Road platform where, of course many things happened ! My memory of which way they eventually let us out, amid the clamour of hysterical inspectors of all departments, loco foremen exiled from the Passenger Loco, and various other varieties of staff, is unfortunately confused - probably over the above aforementioned points - but there was the jack-catch in the tunnel to get by ? I do know that at the end of it all and by the time we got across into a platform my driver was beginning to wish he hadna done it, was no longer chuckling - and I hadn't chuckled at all !

Micky I hope this comes through right. In answer to yours more recently here again's my tale of wrong routing into York Road platform

[Mickey]

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[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

What i recall of the outcome of the enquiry was that the driver took the major part of the blame for this incident even though the signalman had cleared the 'wrong route' for his train because he (the diver) knew that he had to stop at WGC in the down slow line platform even though the signals were cleared straight down the fast line accidently by the signalman.

Forgive my ignorance, but what would have been the correct procedure? Stop at the junction signal and phone the signalman from the nearest available telephone?

[Mickey]

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[hyperion]

Well, that was drivers in them long ago days. 'He's give me the road and I'm gonna take it' was often the thinking. Wrong thinking I suppose and it does put some truth into that old myth that a certain antagonism sprang up between loco crews and 'bobbies'. But this kind of thing would certainly put a bobby's back up when the problem could often be easily solved by stopping at the approp board and getting on the phone.

Imagine the WGC incident nowadays Micky. The passengers of course wouldn't be able to get down onto the track but what would it involve ? I suppose he'd be right away Welwyn North - but to be REALLY awkward he could stop on the main line in the station, get on to Kings Cross and ask to be set back from the north end crossover ?

I always got on ok with signalmen providing I didn't walk across that precious polished piece of floor through the middle of the box !

[sandwhich]

Yes Hyperion I bet your driver felt a little silly and wished he had let you talk to the signaller at Gasworks Tunnel. What you might call being hoisted by his own petard! I bet it was all hell breaking loose on York Road platform.Yes in the good old days if you were wrong routed and you told the signalman it was a case of "Sorry mate wait for signal" Done.

[StevieG]

Forgive my ignorance, but what would have been the correct procedure? Stop at the junction signal and phone the signalman from the nearest available telephone?

Yes basically John, the driver knew he had to stop at WGC station and for him to do that when he was travelling on the down fast line from Hatfield he knew that he would have to be 'turned in' fast to slow at the south end of the station (the same as today) so he should have stopped at the last signal before the 'turn in' and contacted the WGC signalman and advised him.

The driver may have had a GREEN at WGC down fast line distant signal (no.21) for straight down the fast line through WGC so he would had known something wasn't right when he was approaching WGC.

Dead right Micky, No.21 colour-light Distant signal a good halfway back to Hatfield, would've had to be YELLOW for correct routing Down Fast - Down Slow platform.

Mind you, In those days I don't think there was a 'phone at those 'inner' Home signals (for the vital crossover points), at least it seems quite possible that there wasn't, as the approx. 260-yards would've been classed as an acceptable (second-man's ) walking distance to the Box. I've a feeling there would've been one on the first Homes though, way out (750-ish yards) by 20th-Mile bridge.
Of course if whoever might've set off walking knew, at WGC there was, unusually, the 'Rule 147' 'phone somewhere (towards the south end?) on the platform, for guards of trains terminating, or going to be held there for a while, to report direct to the Box that their train had arrived complete with tail lamp so that 'Train out of Section' could be sent to Hatfield, long before the train would eventually pass the box for the signalman to directly see the lamp.

The similar scenario that I once posted about, was probably the best, and perhaps most likely, way it would have unfolded in those days :
Driver of a Cambridge 'Buffet' (Express; due to call) knew it was wrong that he'd had the Distant at GREEN, so as soon as he was on the first track circuits (near 20th-Mile bridge and so in horn-earshot of the signal box) copious horn-blasting was heard while the driver was slowing ready to stop at the inner Home signals, of which that for going straight along the DF (No.23) was still at 'clear', trying to alert the box to the error so that the route could be changed there: Which it started to be very quickly, with the signalman having immediately realised the error that the horn-blowing was for, and so 23 home signal quickly dropped to Danger well before the train had stopped at it (I suppose these days, that that isn't allowed to be done until such a train has actually stopped).
The points couldn't then be immediately changed here because it was one of the locations where there was a 2-minute lock of back-lock type on the signal lever and/or a direct lock on the facing point lock &/or points (so that, in the case of erroneous replacement to Danger of the signal in the face of a driver NOT stopping, the facing point lock and points didn't become immediately free to be moved, possibly just as the train, unable to stop, reached them, and if moved then causing an instant derailment).

Then as soon as 23 signal, No.13 FPL and 14 facing points did become free, the road was changed and 12 DF-DS inner Home signal cleared to let the train into the platform.

- Staff co-operating to minimise the potential impact of a right-side (not unsafe) error.

[ Edited 14:05 07/02/13 to correct spolling eerors.]

[StevieG]

" .... Imagine the WGC incident nowadays Micky. The passengers of course wouldn't be able to get down onto the track .... "

Well actually they would, only it would probably take a longer hold-up and a lesser number of individuals to feel brave enough to do it and potentially start more to decide to follow suit.
Most, if not all, of the EMUs with power-doors that I can think of having travelled on (& DMUs?), these days, have an emergency door release valve on the interior, at one (sometimes more?) set of doors on each side of each carriage; probably following lessons learned from one or more particular train incidents - perhaps the fire inside the 'Ladbroke Grove' HST may have been one.
As I see it, it's a necessary evil - a godsend in the right (bad) circumstances [hopefully when instructed by a 'guard' (or equivalent) if there is one, or the driver], - but regrettably also available for misuse; either through long delay or frustration/panic, when it would be safer to stay inside, but in a genuine incident, without guidance, it can't be expected that passengers necessarily know all the circumstances relevant to a stay-put/evacuate decision.

[Mickey]

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[Mickey]

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