Now its 46229s turn

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:56 am

Now that every seems to have let off sum steam (pardon the pun) about 4472 lets start on the NRM cock up.
If you havernt guessed yet im talking about 46229 Duchess of Hamalton.
The fact that is going to be streamlined to just sit beside mallard and be outdone I think is silly the money would be put to alot better use if it was put on the mainline. Instead steam railway thought it was a good idea and ran an appeal. Did you see the next months mag, it was full of complaints about it. The complaints seem to reflect what I think why waste money that could be used on other locos covering up the grasefulness of an unstreamlined Duchess (Its the same as leaving the Germs on the front of Scotsman). It would have been better to just put it on the mainline and then instead of spending money on the streamlining putting it towards the restoreation of 4472, the work on 60800 (4771) or even start work on another mainline engine to work out of the NRMs out station at Shildon. The NRM mainline fleet is currently 0 is the steam standings. 30777 Sir Lamiel being the closest to making a return to the mainline. Why don't the NRM get the prioterys right the idea of mainline tours is to create publisity in the case of the NRM so why let the steam fleet disapear from the mainline. In the late 80s it was great 92220 Evening Star, 4771 Green Arrow, 30777 Sir Lamiel and 46229 Duchess of Hamelton. What has happerned in 20 years. They restored 3440 City of Truro and it did 1 mainline tour, what a waste of appeal money. If you are going to spend money on a loco it should be to make it work not to ruign its appearance

Post by **richard** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:51 pm

Whatever the NRM does, it will be criticsed for it! They probably get more hassle than the average England football manager - only thing is that they're not sentenced by the tabloids.

Look at all the people complaining that they're spending money keeping Green Arrow and Flying Scotsman running, at the expense of their favourites?
Or the fuss about Green Arrow's monobloc.

I actually think the restoration of Duchess of Hamilton's cladding is a daring project - and bravo to the NRM for seriously considering it.
Unlike the A1s/A3s, there are THREE Duchesses surviving. This does give some flexibility as to what to do with them. None of them have worn streamlining for a long time, so it will be good to see. Also, why should the A3 be restored to a "famous" prior form, but not the Duchess?

When I visited in August, I thought the NRM had done a great job, and the place looked much better (and full of life) compared to when I last visited in the 1980s.

Richard

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:01 pm

My point is that in my opinion the Unstreamlined Duchess is Staniers version of the brilliant looking A2. We have to remenber that the place the most revenue comes from in these times is entusiasts (see steam railway Dec05 i think). The streamlining of the duchess is not my point is the lack of mainline national collection examples. Thats why the NRM seened less full in the 80s. 92220, 777, 850, 46229 and 4771 were all on the mainline. The best trip to york I had was when there were 4 tours through of york in 1 day (a Deltic, 71000, Rood Ashton Hall and B1 61264) and the only thing we used the NRM for is a vantage point and a place to eat. We did walk round but my opinion of the place is that I still prefer to visit a good preseved railway (the NYMR being a favorite of mine). Thats the thing that frusrates me about the NRM is that its like someone went into Barry with a tin of paint, the only thing that moves is a replicar or a small tank engine. I would prefer it if the NRM was more an Active shed. Barrow hill is Just Better in my opinion at least most stuff moves there

Post by **richard** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:18 pm

In the 80s, all they had running was the beam engine and the models up on the gallery!

Now, there's the Beattie Well tank, the Scarborough run, the narrow gauge line, etc. They are limited with space. They can't run big stuff unless it goes to somewhere like Scarborough.

And for mainline running, there's Oliver Cromwell in addition to Green Arrow and Flying Scotsman.

I really don't think you can complain about it being dead. There's much more life than there used to be, and they do keep a reasonable rotating range of locomotives in running condition.
(eg. Evening Star might not be running, but City of Truro, the Super D, and soon Oliver Cromwell are)

Richard

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:19 pm

I ve think you have missed my point. My point is that not every one can visit the NRM and thats why an active loco fleet is important. At the moment it will be atleast a year before 70013 moves agian, 60800 is under repair and Scotsman is in for overhaul. The next National collection loco to grase the mainline will be 30777 sir lamiel. If they want publisity they did Mallard 88 and 89 hows about Sir Lamiel 06 or even Cromwell 07/08 but this never happerns. The other thing to remember is that the other locos (the super D, O4 63601, and 3440 City of Truro) are all confind to preserved railways. The mainline fleet is what the prolem is. From the large number in 1988 on the mainline (4468,92220,4771,777,46229) compered to 0 at the begining of 2006 (They are under overhaul or under repair) If they get there act together the Scarburgh runs could be developed to go the other way on to Leeds, Skipton, Carlisle and back via Darlington. By 2008 we should have 70013, 4472, 4771 and 30777 on the mainline so this could be possible (well it is). It was possible in 1988/89 so why not now or atleast 2008/09 as a sort of aniverary of the runs mallard made and get 60007, 60009 and a good reliable loco on the scene like 45407. The best religability and mainline turn outs for 2005 I think go to the team at Ian Riley Engineers with 3 operational locos they have taken the mainline steam market and ran with it. 45407 has not failed on railtour scince overhaul and has covered 4472 on a number of occations, 76079 has ran well and supported 2 daily summer steam interaries (Whitby runs, Barmounth area) and 34067 (1/2 owned by IRE) has been the mainstay of the Kingfisher Railtours in the south of the country. The level of maintainace and work carried out by them on these and other peoples locos is great. Where they run atleast one of there locos every week and sometime daily. If a quite small engineering company can get things spot on and keep 3 locos in mainline condition, sometimes with the locos being 200 miles apart (Malliag and Victoria). This is proof that this can be done but the NRM seems to not be able to do this. What we got in the summer of 2005 was 1 loco 4 days a week 50:50 chance of the tour going to plan. About 20% of the Ride the Legend runs were with 45407, Olton Hall, 60800 and 45112 or the royal class 47.

Post by **richard** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:42 pm

Isn't it a greater waste of taxpayer's money to compete against existing preservation organisations and commercial operations?

Instead the NRM should be supplementing them. As such, it makes perfect sense that 4468 and 92220 are preserved in static condition; and rarer types such as City of Truro and Green Arrow are allowed to stretch their legs.

I think it is also a bit unfair to blame the NRM for the condition of 4472 when it took ownership of the engine.

Richard

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:47 pm

I dont blame the NRM for 4472, what I do blame them for is the lack of National Collection locos on the mailine in January 2006. I can understand 4468 and 92220 on static as well as 5000 but as for things like 1000 and the GNR atlantic why not they are basically one of a kind now. The Super D O4 and 3440 seem to be confind to preserved railways. The fact that I compared it to the way IRE does buisness is not compertion its just run better. They have 3 mainline locos that run week in week out with minimal problems what I ment was the NRM needs to Up its standards of maintance or the peices of there summer run timetables are going to go to places like IRE, WCRC and people like Pete Waterman (mind you we all know the NRM owes him alot). If the maintaince was carried out more the way IRE does it 4472 could have worked all the Scarburgh runs, subsiquently freeing 60800 and 45407 for other work. Why should the NRM get prioty for a comparifly small run to Scarburgh when 60800 was booked to work from York via Settle to Carlisle and then back via Darlington. It is a NATIONAL collection right, or does National now meen Scarbourgh and Midland Mainline in York Ill ask when Im next there but as far as I know the only 'National' Collection loco booked to work north of Scarbough and York is 30777 and thats one tour. I am I missing something about the NRMs policy here. Bring back the Mainline in the Late 80s would be the best offer I ever get. Its not the NRM itself its the mainline scene and the lack of National collection engines in it.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:07 pm

One word Tom,

Money.

What it all goes down to.

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:01 pm

Truro is Mainline.

There just isnt the intrest in the tour operators due to its low haulage capacity.

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:12 pm

That is what enoyed me about what they are doing to 46229 surely money could be spent better on overhauls and mot miles and miles of tin plate to cover up a perfectly shaped loco. This is the only pacific that gave the LNER a run for its money so it commands respect and deserves better after all this is Staners A3 right.

Wandering1500 · Post by **Wandering1500** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:10 am

as for things like 1000 and the GNR atlantic why not they are basically one of a kind now

Afraid you covered that one yourself....they're one of a kind.

Super D O4 and 3440 seem to be confind to preserved railways.

Well.....if you can find me both a tour operator and a crew willing to operate a tour, limited to at best 40mph, on a VERY rickety loco, AND find the path for it in todays modern world, AND pay for TPWS....your on!

Bring back the Mainline in the Late 80s would be the best offer I ever get.

And what benefits would we gain from that? A 60mph max speed limit? NO tours over electrified southern lines? Less engines and tours on less lines than today?

Some people really don't appreciate what they have. 10 or 20 years ago, there was none of the above. The 04 was destined for Static display, as was the Super D....along with Green Arrow, 6233, 70013.....and many more.

David

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:59 am

I have a line, Whitby-Middlesburgh, theres a service train every 1 and 1/2 or so

Wandering1500 · Post by **Wandering1500** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:04 pm

So.....pay a good few grand to fit TPWS and whatever else you need, so they can do, say, 1 run a year on the mainline? I think you'll find its just not worth the money.

David

Tom Quayle · Post by **Tom Quayle** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:10 pm

But 3440 had all the gobbledy gook fitted and worked 1 tour. So at least they would get used on the mainline once a year and any way the whitby-Glisedale runs are 4 times a week in the summer season and if it had 'interesting motive power more people would go on it.

Wandering1500 · Post by **Wandering1500** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:18 pm

any way the whitby-Glisedale runs are 4 times a week in the summer season

Exactly, a 100 year old loco, or a slow, freight loco aren't the best sort to be using on the mainline. The whitby trains are possibly too much for 3440, while 49395 is not TPWS fitted, or built for passenger trains. Plus, as you said they're ran 4 times a week, so more modern, reliable locomotives easily capable of the task would be a better option.

if it had 'interesting motive power more people would go on it

Not entirely. Most passengers are tourists, who are just as happy with 76079 or 45407 on the front as they would be with 49395 or 3440.

Plus, who says 3440 and 49395 will be based at the NYMR for the summer of each year?

Personally i'm happy with 49395 and 3440 sticking to preserved lines, they travel to many different ones around the country, and a suprising amount of people have now seen and rode behind them. Why tax them on the mainline when they're doing perfectly well already?

David