New Southgate Station: Railhead for Wembley

[Dave Cockle]

It's a tall order, but I wonder if anyone out there had any Special Traffic Notices (or photos!!) detailing special trains that brought sporting fans to events at Wembley via New Southgate. I'm in the throws of puting together an illustrated talk on the history of railways in the London Borough of Enfield and would like to mention this aspect of the working at New Southgate.

I was signalman at Wood Green No 4 box in 1972/3 and remember switched the ECS off these specials Up Slow to Up Goods at Wood Geeen in order to access Hornsey CS. In particular I remember one Saturday afternoon when four or five specials were dealt with at New Southgate in connection with ladies hockey international at Wembley.

New Southagate was chosen as at that period there was only an hourly stopping suburban service there, giving plenty of time to occupy the Up Slow Platform with terminating trains. There was plenty of parking space for road coaches to line up outside both exits of the station and the North Circular Road was nearby to enable a short coach journey to me made forward to Wembley.

[Mickey]

I saw quite a few BR Mk1s stabled in the Up sidings back in the early 1970s.

Mickey

[Dave Cockle]

Micky,

I think Cemetery box may have been switched would have out at weekends so the specials would have to be turned in Up the Slow at New Barnet.

I can recall an incident where stabled ECS at New Southagte had all the brass knuckles cut off the steam heating pipes by thieves who were after the brass for its scrap value. After that they avoided stabling ECS at New Southgate unless unavoidable.

When I was a signalman at Hertford North I received seven bells from Cuffley for 8P50 Palace Gates - Whitemoor empty hopper wagons which had attached a raft of empty coal hoppers at Enfield Chase. The Cuffley signalman suspected a "Hot Box" because of an unusual noise. On arrival at Hertford North three of the wagons attached at Enfield had smoking axle boxes and some complex shunting was necessary to detach them in Hertford North sidings. The wagons involved were all in different location within the raft. When the C&W examiner attended it was discovered that the gun metal bearings from the axle boxes had been stolen thus the "Hot Boxes". Apparentely the thieves would have had to have jacked the individual wagons up in order to remove the valuable gun metal.

[52D]

Micky,

I think Cemetery box may have been switched would have out at weekends so the specials would have to be turned in Up the Slow at New Barnet.

I can recall an incident where stabled ECS at New Southagte had all the brass knuckles cut off the steam heating pipes by thieves who were after the brass for its scrap value. After that they avoided stabling ECS at New Southgate unless unavoidable.

When I was a signalman at Hertford North I received seven bells from Cuffley for 8P50 Palace Gates - Whitemoor empty hopper wagons which had attached a raft of empty coal hoppers at Enfield Chase. The Cuffley signalman suspected a "Hot Box" because of an unusual noise. On arrival at Hertford North three of the wagons attached at Enfield had smoking axle boxes and some complex shunting was necessary to detach them in Hertford North sidings. The wagons involved were all in different location within the raft. When the C&W examiner attended it was discovered that the gun metal bearings from the axle boxes had been stolen thus the "Hot Boxes". Apparentely the thieves would have had to have jacked the individual wagons up in order to remove the valuable gun metal.

When i worked for British Steel at Tinsley adjacent to the yard, i was on safety cover over the Christmas period on nights, whilst doing my rounds at about midnight on Christmas eve i heard a noise at the bottom end of the mill, i got on the phone to security who hadnt had a patrol around for a while. They sent a guy down and we walked down to investigate, all of a sudden there was some irish accented shouting and figures scurrying away towards Tinsley yard, we called civil and rail police the figures ran across Tinsley yard up the embankment and across the M1 where they managed to get away. When we returned to the scene they had been attempting to nick the brasses off the scrap carrying rail wagons.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[StevieG]

I remember such trains/events in the late '60s.

If such trains were turned in Fast-to-Slow at New Barnet then, it would have been at North box, unlike today : The 'turn-in' only moved to the South with the June 1970 remodelling/signalling.

I'd agree with Micky about Cemetery being switched in rather than out in Sat. daytime - I hardly ever recalll it being 'out' other than Sat.night and possibly Sunday daytime.

Re your OP Dave, I have no evidence that you request, (unless a photo I've posted here before, of Flying Scotsman steaming past NS box on the Down Fast with an early Pegler-era special [1968?], when there happens to be a rake of Mk.I's in the Wallside Siding, was taken on such a day : I doubt it though, the occasion was a Sat. morning and so probably before 'Wembley' trains would have been arriving).

I do remember being in the box when such trains were about though, particularly on one Saturday when there was some sort of important hockey event (a final?) at Wembley, and at least one train terminated at New Southgate, allowing hoards of schoolgirls to alight. Pretty sure that the same day/event also had at least one special booked to terminate at New Barnet.
Can't remember the associated ECS workings though. I've some idea that we had a rake in the Wallside for a back working, but 43 disc at the Down Slow entry to the siding had no route back into the platform, and I don't remember ECS being propelled back into the platform by handsignal alone, so I may be just confusing such an idea with a train loading the girls up in the DS platform having come ECS from Hornsey or wherever.
I don't recall ECS stabling on the upside at New Southgate from these trains, but I doubt I was there on every such occasion.

[Mickey]

Those Up sidings were quite full of ECS back in the early 1970s.

Mickey

[StevieG]

" .... I don't recall ECS stabling on the upside at New Southgate from these trains, but I doubt I was there on every such occasion.

I meant to add that it wasn't at all unusual to see a rake or two of coaching stock stabled in New Southgate Top Yard (on the Up side, halfway north towards Cemetery box), presumably spare ECS not used a lot, or at times when Bounds Green and Hornsey (& Holloway?) had become over full for some reason.
Not sure by which route they arrived there, but the signalling at NS would have permitted them to propel back over the long 'Through' (some say 'ladder') crossover from the Down side, direct to the Up Goods or loading dock siding, run-round, then propel back along the Up Reception and into Top Yard.
But they might also have got there by going to New Barnet, running-round there, then south to Top Yard by entering the Up Reception (which, in spite of entry being governed by a full-size signal arm instead of a miniature, was a "No Block" line operated jointly by C and NS boxes, using what some called the 'Telephone and Prayer block system') at Cemetery.