Thommo O1 new picture

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
I have never seen a pic of Thompson's O12 with a parallel sided chimney. I am not a Thompson fan and don't have a drawing of a Thompson O1, but all the pics in RCTS 6B show a curved sided sort of plantpot. The text merely says a similiar type to that carried by O4/8 rebuilds.
Robinson reputedly said "A loco's chimney is like a man's hat". The chimneys fitted to his large locos are amongst the best looking loco chimneys around.
Have a good day everyone
Earlswood Nob
(A signalbox near where I grew up)

[Atlantic 3279]

It makes no sense to me to turn the matter of the chimney shape into an argument for which I certainly don't have time. To my observations, the presence of a flare in the real O1 chimneys is as plain as day, likewise the chimneys on the B1s, and the omission of the flare plus the clumsy (in some ways almost GWR) interpretation of the cap is equally evident in the Hornby versions.
The best I can do to illustrate this, without (I hope) getting onto excessively dodgy ground regarding copyright, is to post this cropped image of a real O1 and an inset thumbnail of the most closely matching drawing of a Doncaster chimney in my possession.

That picture also seems to substantiate the view that the Hornby smokebox door is the wrong kind - too big.

How I wish I knew whether that O2 rumour has any truth in it, and which manufacturer might be involved. I'm afraid that unless others have higher sources within the rumour mill we have little to go on at present.....

[strang steel]

It makes no sense to me to turn the matter of the chimney shape into an argument for which I certainly don't have time. To my observations, the presence of a flare in the real O1 chimneys is as plain as day, likewise the chimneys on the B1s, and the omission of the flare plus the clumsy (in some ways almost GWR) interpretation of the cap is equally evident in the Hornby versions.
The best I can do to illustrate this, without (I hope) getting onto excessively dodgy ground regarding copyright, is to post this cropped image of a real O1 and an inset thumbnail of the most closely matching drawing of a Doncaster chimney in my possession.

That picture also seems to substantiate the view that the Hornby smokebox door is the wrong kind - too big.

How I wish I knew whether that O2 rumour has any truth in it, and which manufacturer might be involved. I'm afraid that unless others have higher sources within the rumour mill we have little to go on at present.....

Actually, I withdraw my earlier comment about the rivet heads, because on that photo they do stand out quite significantly.

[S.A.C. Martin]

I've spent most of the evening going through photographs of O1s I know I have, and I'm afraid whilst I agree on the chimney issue (the chimney, like the B1 before it, is not accurate), I don't agree that there is an issue with the smokebox door.

It's not an issue of accuracy but preference: they've chosen to model the B1 smokebox door which some of the class carried, and they already have tooled up from their previous B1 model.

Perhaps not the best choice if you want the NE style O1s, but several members of the class were fitted with the larger door throughout their lives, and it is accurate for some members of the class. Given how easily the smokebox pops out on the B1s and L1s, I'm not sure it's something to get particularly worked up about as there must be some O1 type smokebox doors available somewhere.

[mick b]

On enlarging the RM Web photo I posted I now see how dire it actually it is (sorry Graeme). Hopefully it is not the final production version.
What I thought was a casting line on the Chimney on examination shows that is actually two pieces stuck together and looks like a simple extension of the original B1 base ?. I noticed it also has the same slight moulding marks on the Boiler top as the B1.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

The only O2, that I know that's going to be made into a RTR model, is being put together by Dapol, for Kernows and that's a 0-4-4 Southern tank engine, and not many of those worked on the ECML, hauling coal trains

manna

[Atlantic 3279]

Hi Simon: As you've put the time in checking photos, and I haven't looked at more than just the one lately, I take you are correct about the use of different sizes of smokebox doors just as on the B1s. Will somebody else now stridently disagree I wonder?


REGARDING THE RUMOURED O2: One reason I'd be keen to know, even if only privately, if anything is going on, is that flexibility could usefully be planned into the chassis if the makers are prepared to listen. For instance, there's no earthly reason to expect the drive gear to be on the second coupled axle, it is likely in my opinion to be put on the third. The chassis could perhaps be designed to make it possible to transfer the drive gear to the fourth coupled axle should anybody want to put the chassis, re-wheeled, under a P1 with lots of daylight under the boiler ahead of the wide firebox. It would facilitate adaptation to use under one of HNG's "straight eight" O1s if the bearings/slot for the second coupled axle were put into a separate plug-in element within the main casting. This could be arranged so that one simply turns the element around back-to-front (as in Hornby's Bulleid Pacifics) so as to vary the relevant section of the wheelbase. The O2 body of course could easily be made so as to be highly adaptable to LNE or GN style. Further altering the very front by scratchbuilding or add-on resin castings to straight-eight style would not be a massive job, and I think most of the cylinder style, crosshead, slidebars, valve gear and motion bracket changes can be achieved "near enough" using Comet generic LNER cylinders and a Comet LMS 8F motion set. I've had such a motion set "simmering" in the packet for a couple of years now, having originally intended to simultaneously build and adapt an O2 kit, but I'll gladly take the RTR option instead, if offered.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Hi Simon: As you've put the time in checking photos, and I haven't looked at more than just the one lately, I take you are correct about the use of different sizes of smokebox doors just as on the B1s. Will somebody else now stridently disagree I wonder?

Hi Graeme - there's no doubt in my mind that the B1 smokebox door is correct, but it is correct for a far smaller number of O1s. I can sense Tom's frustration and I sympathize greatly as to be fair, Hornby tooling up the more common door would have been preferable for the vast majority of LNER modellers. This is clearly in some respect a cost cutting measure by Hornby.

The best examples I have found to illustrate that point were the first two I found yesterday: as on the previous page, 63746 here clearly has a B1 smokebox door, whereas 63773 here has the smaller smokebox door.

It's clear that the O1s and B1s have similar traits in terms of details. The upper lamp irons with the diamond bracket used on the NE style doors was also used on at least one or two B1 type doors, which means Hornby's model shown on RMweb recently is correct, but for possibly only the class member chosen for that livery.

If they haven't tooled up a separate smokebox door (and so late in the game, it looks unlikely) it is something of an oversight, as so far as I can tell, the O1s with the NE style door outnumber the B1 style doors by a clear margin. But since the smokebox door can be removed easily, it's just one of those modelling jobs to do I guess. Doesn't make it right that Hornby have made this oversight, but the B1 door is correct and it stands to reason they'd re-use a component they already have.

REGARDING THE RUMOURED O2: One reason I'd be keen to know, even if only privately, if anything is going on, is that flexibility could usefully be planned into the chassis if the makers are prepared to listen. For instance, there's no earthly reason to expect the drive gear to be on the second coupled axle, it is likely in my opinion to be put on the third. The chassis could perhaps be designed to make it possible to transfer the drive gear to the fourth coupled axle should anybody want to put the chassis, re-wheeled, under a P1 with lots of daylight under the boiler ahead of the wide firebox. It would facilitate adaptation to use under one of HNG's "straight eight" O1s if the bearings/slot for the second coupled axle were put into a separate plug-in element within the main casting. This could be arranged so that one simply turns the element around back-to-front (as in Hornby's Bulleid Pacifics) so as to vary the relevant section of the wheelbase. The O2 body of course could easily be made so as to be highly adaptable to LNE or GN style. Further altering the very front by scratchbuilding or add-on resin castings to straight-eight style would not be a massive job, and I think most of the cylinder style, crosshead, slidebars, valve gear and motion bracket changes can be achieved "near enough" using Comet generic LNER cylinders and a Comet LMS 8F motion set. I've had such a motion set "simmering" in the packet for a couple of years now, having originally intended to simultaneously build and adapt an O2 kit, but I'll gladly take the RTR option instead, if offered.

A very interesting development if it occurs. Ears to the ground gents.

[Tom F]

Hi Graeme - there's no doubt in my mind that the B1 smokebox door is correct, but it is correct for a far smaller number of O1s. I can sense Tom's frustration and I sympathize greatly as to be fair, Hornby tooling up the more common door would have been preferable for the vast majority of LNER modellers. This is clearly in some respect a cost cutting measure by Hornby.

I think you are absolutely right Simon. Very good find with that photo, as the whole of Yeadon shows them with the smaller door. Can be altered mind with a old tender drive D49 or B17 door, but good find indeed!

Regarding the chimney, it's never really bothered be on the B1, but does grind a bit when I view it on the O1.

[S.A.C. Martin]

I think you are absolutely right Simon. Very good find with that photo, as the whole of Yeadon shows them with the smaller door. Can be altered mind with a old tender drive D49 or B17 door, but good find indeed!

Now THAT is a very good shout. I have a spare one of those doors too, hmmm...! Well done Tom, good idea that.

Yeadons, as you say, doesn't show a single one with the other door, but I spotted one in RCTS 6B. Just one, out of a good dozen photographs. So that may indicate how many in reality probably got the B1 door!

But a quick glance through Google image search and Flickr found a few more at different times of their life. So my view on it is that it is correct, but for how many and when exactly may provide a problem. As always - as you know yourself Tom - a photograph of the chosen loco confirms all.

Regarding the chimney, it's never really bothered be on the B1, but does grind a bit when I view it on the O1.

It is literally the only thing which is really grinding my gears at the moment. Not sure why Hornby went for such a poor chimney on both.

[Tom F]

I think you are absolutely right Simon. Very good find with that photo, as the whole of Yeadon shows them with the smaller door. Can be altered mind with a old tender drive D49 or B17 door, but good find indeed!

Now THAT is a very good shout. I have a spare one of those doors too, hmmm...! Well done Tom, good idea that.

I'd like to take credit for it but I can't. It was Tim that discovered it when he was doing GIlbert's O4/8...he will be altering mine when he is up in March.

It's absolutely perfect for the job! Means you could also change a B1, as a few ran with the same type NE door.

[S.A.C. Martin]

I'd like to take credit for it but I can't. It was Tim that discovered it when he was doing GIlbert's O4/8...he will be altering mine when he is up in March.

It's absolutely perfect for the job! Means you could also change a B1, as a few ran with the same type NE door.

Well done Tim then - definitely a good shout for anyone who wants the more numerous example. That tip about the O4/8 is good too.

Ah Hornby - at least in your spares we can model proficiently...!

[IAK]

Dave Bradwells B1 castings any use here?

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

I have to say that if our only complaints about the O1 are the smokebox door and chimney then what the heck are we compainig about folks.We all say we are Railway Modellers so can an average Railway Modeller change a chimney and a smokebox door or not?
It's surely not rocket science and when we have people on here and RmWeb changing the Bachmann Peppercorn A2 into the Thompson A2/2 & A2/3, with such outstanding results, surely changing a chimney and a smokebox door are not a real problem.
I personally think that the O1 is a fantastic model as it stands and just wish I was still in 4mm rather than 7mm.This is not like the original Gresley 61-6 coaches from Hornby where they clearly mucked up on an otherwise excellent coach with the tumblehome and lining position.That is not easily rectified and deserves to be critisized, but I think the B1 & O1 are top notch if our only grumbles are as above.Well done Margate and Simon K in particular.

[mick b]

I agree, however this is not the production version anyway. Which maybe the same or even better

We have never had it so good