Returning to Grantham

[workev]

Time for another topic - Freight trains from/to Colwick. Many freight trains through Grantham operated between Colwick and New England. These trains actually provided a lot of variety of motive power, as opposed to the endless stream of O2s and WDs on the Iron Ore trains (of which I do have another question!).

O1s, O4s, B16s, Pacifics, K3s, as well as more eclectic ex-GNR/LNER types were noted on these trains in the 1950s, although photographs are more difficult to come by on these workings. Some of my research threw up the issue of Gateshead pacifics being used on the Colwick-Kings Cross working to position the locos back at KX (during Autumn 1956), and i assume that the Engine change took place at Grantham. B16s were actually a common site at Grantham, be it maybe overnight, and used the Welwyn-Colwick working to get back to York.

That said it is difficult to find any details on regular engine turns on these workings. Johns photos from the 1960s show 9Fs, WDs and O2s, but few other types. It is also difficult to find any information on the B12s that were at Grantham until April 1957, what services did these work?

Any information or insight would be of great hekp to me. Other than than the High Dyke trains which seem to have a folklore associated with them, freight seems to have "happened" at Grantham, blending into the background whilst the endless streams of Pacifics got all the attention.

Ian

[strang steel]

It is great research that you are doing here Ian, but I am rather confused as to the splitting/joining of trains at Grantham. Did this happen on a regular basis? I cant find much evidence in the timetables that I have. Can you quote a few examples please?

I thought the local services were run as separate entities, as they had done for many years. Lincoln - Grantham, Boston - Grantham and Derby/Nottingham - Grantham. I cant remember not having to change trains at Grantham when making the journey from the Sleaford direction to Nottingham in the 1960s.

I don't have the later timetables, so I don't know precisely when the through DMU services from Boston/Skegness to Nottingham began.

The B12s were used mainly on local services to Peterborough. There are a few photos around of them on these trains. Was it an attempt to speed them up in the days before stations such as Tallington, Little Bytham and Essendine closed?

[workev]

John,

Ok some of the trains I have are:

Train 768, 06:39 Grantham Derby had BZ attached off Train 946 02:15 KX-Grantham Parcels
Train 782 , 07:35 Peterborough-Doncaster had 5 coaches detached at Grantham, which then formed the 09:50 Grantham-Doncaster (Train 794).

There are others, and of course the 07:33 Nottingham-KX (Train 777) had 7 coaches attached at Grantham.

I hope to add more details later and am happy to publish more here, but away in Oman at the moment with work so fitting things between meetings!

The 02:15 KX-Grantham parcels, also had Parcels vehicles sent to Boston, Doncaster and Lincoln.

Ian

[strang steel]

It is interesting because I would have thought that would be the job of the station pilot, although I dont know which type of loco was allocated to that duty, an N2 maybe?

Perhaps one of the ex-Grantham employees knows the answer.

I have looked at the allocations, but surprisingly there does not seem to be any diesel shunters listed at 34F. There were a few J68s and J69s plus in earlier years a couple of J52s.

After the shed closed, there were a couple of class 10s there (later replaced by 08s) but they were from New England. As I said before, I presume they were pottering around attaching and removing parcels vans but I just dont remember watching them do it.

[workev]

John,

Depends upon the time. For 1956/57, three 3F Jintys were moved from New England for 12 months, and I assume that maybe the L1s could have been used at some point.

The N2s arrived in 1958 I think, when Grantham was downgraded to 34F after the timetable "revolution" in Winter 1957. I would guess much less shunting of stock occured then, other than freight in the yards.

What makes 1956/57 such an interesting time period in Grantham's history is it marked the final years of Grantham being a high profile shed on the GNR/ECML. For example two Grantham engines that worked on night-time fish/meat trains from Aberdeen (pacifics/V2s) came back to Grantham light engine in the early hours of the morning.

Ian

[workev]

Interestingly, and as I think has already been mentioned, that until the Winter timetable in 1957 Grantham actually needed 3 station pilots, one for coaching stock, one for the eastern yards, and I assume one for the shed area.

As an aside, I would like to understand how many of York's B16s worked through Grantham in 1956/57, I think many more than people would expect. Several were actually recorded on KX-Niddrie freights, and I think at least one was recorded on the Scotch Goods standing in for a failure.

I'll try and detail other bits of research in the next few days and weeks. I think many people on this forum have more experiene of the early 60s, although Roy did start at Grantham in 1957 I think.

One last nugget, there were well over 300 train movements per weekday at Grantham in 1956/57.........

Ian

[workev]

Just a thought, for the 07:33 Nottingham-KX, did the Nottingham section arrive at Platform 5, and then get shunted on to the back of the coaches that started at Grantham presumably waiting in Platform 2? Roy@34F that might be one for you!

Ian

[ROY@34F]

Ian, Wish I could enlighten you , but afraid not , not on stock movements at least . I believe in your 56/57 time slot there were possibly a ex.G.E. Holden tank or two (I remember one , at least) Class N1 were they ? , used for up and down goods shunt , and I'm sure John (Strangsteel)is right about J69s etc. also.There were certainly a few C12 tank engines used mainly for coach pilot and trips to the old yard (the Wharfe). I'm pretty sure the L1s did'nt arrive 'till a couple of years or more later. Most of the Notts. trains, and possibly Lincoln/Boston,but not sure of those,was handled by J6's,of which there were quite a few at Grantham,and J39s from Colwick , mainly I think. There were two, or maybe more,A5 tanks at Grantham at that time also. I reckon the B16s had gone when I started in Aug.'57.I don't recollect seeing them.
Regards,Roy.

[61070]

To add to Roy's comment, in every photo I have in my collection which shows an L1 at Grantham the loco's facing smokebox south. There are 6 such photos (most are either in this thread or here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3026&start=15 ), all taken in 1961 or 1962. The odds against every one of these engines facing south if each loco could have faced in a random direction is, I think, 1 in 64 (maths specialists shoot me down in flames if that's incorrect - I never fully got to grips with probability theory).

I've ordered a copy of Lincolnshire Raiway Memories - looking forward to it dropping through the door.

Today Lincolnshire Railway Memories arrived - a beautifully written and produced book which includes, for example, essays as diverse as an account of family life at Mablethorpe, in and out of the holiday season, and a description of the iron and steel works at Scunthorpe from someone who worked there from apprentice to retirement. There's far too much to read at one sitting but, looking through the photographs, I found an exception to the rule discussed above - on page 73 67747 is seen at Grantham arriving bunker first from Nottingham. The photograph is undated but is said to be from 'the late 1950s'.

[strang steel]

On the subject of J68s shunting at Grantham, I found this photo for sale on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... _500wt_945

Sadly the auction has ended now, but it shows 68638 in August 1958 according to the sellers' information.

[strang steel]

Oh, and have you seen this:-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ner-years/

Marvellous

[ROY@34F]

Oh, and have you seen this:-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ner-years/

Marvellous

Yes John.Absolutely wonderful is'nt it.I think he's absolutely nailed it with regard to track layout and the general atmosphere of the scenes.
Roy.

[workev]

Oh, and have you seen this:-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ner-years/

Marvellous

So two Grantham layouts have broken into the public domain; I now feel totally ashamed by my lack of build progress....

I think I knew this was being built, looks fantastic....

Ian

[strang steel]

Here is a rather scratchy scan of K3 61812 heading south with a mixed goods.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Is that a GN tender behind the K3? Looks really odd and yet so right when I compare with my Bachmann K3's group standard one.