Fox and Gresley Coach Bogies

[EdgeHill8A]

I am building a D&S coach kit which includes Fox bogies. I seem to recall that the LNER replaced the 8ft 0in Fox bogies with 8ft 6in Gresley pattern. Would this coach running in 1930 most likely have Fox or Gresley bogies?

[JASd17]

Not much to go on EdgeHill8A.

Which D&S kit?

John

[65447]

And, if they were replaced (and not all were), I think that the Gresley bogies would be the 8' 0" wheelbase variant.

[BlythStationLad]

Fox bogies were still under a Gresley push-pull coach at Blyth in 1958 - I saw the photo in a magazine a couple of years ago.

[Atso]

Many of the full brakes retained Fox bogies throughout their lives and IIRC more of the non-corridor Gresley full brakes were fitted with Fox bogies than 8' Gresley's.

Do you have any pictures of your build?

[Dave]

If anyone is interested the NRM have the following Gresley 8'-0" bogie GA drawings and could have more if I looked harder.
1776N Four wheeled carriage bogie 8'-0" WB 1913, retraced 1934.
6776N 8'-0" Light type special bogie 1929.....? I don't know what they were used under.
7802N 8'-0" WB Four wheeled carriage bogie pressed steel frame 1930 (with note supersedes 1776N).

[EdgeHill8A]

Not much to go on EdgeHill8A.

Which D&S kit?

John

Kit DS 279 - GNR 58ft 1in brake composite. It looks as though the Fox bogies supplied in the kit will be fine!

[JASd17]

According to the GNR Diagram book, most, if not all, the D183s had their Fox bogies replaced by Standard Gresley bogies, i.e. 8' 6". This process started in the 1920s, but did take some time. Unfortunately although the change is shown on the diagram in several different hands, no actual date is ever given.

So I think both would be possible circa 1930.

John

[jwealleans]

Some of the Isinglass drawings for GNR and NER coaches I have do give dates for bogie changes (or at least 'changed by' dates) if you want to go into that level of accuracy. I don't know whether the one you're building is covered by their range.

John Fozard does the same coach, I believe - he may be able to indicate whether he knows of any sources for this information.

Of course if you can find a photo to build to the question may answer itself.

[2512silverfox]

I have similar notes in my GN Dia book, but photgraphic evidence comfirms that the change to Spencer 8' 6" bogies on eliptical roofed passenger stock began in 1923 and possibly earlier. Football saloon 1377N was photographed at the Plant in 1923 to record a change to Spencer bogies. See HCD Vol 1 page 90.

[JASd17]

2512silverfox is quite right.

I should have said the 'version' of the GN diagram book available via the GNRS on disc, not 'the GNR Diagram book'.

Isinglass do have a D183 drawing on their list. HCD v.1 does too I think. Perhaps 2512silverfox could confirm that?

John

[EdgeHill8A]

According to the GNR Diagram book, most, if not all, the D183s had their Fox bogies replaced by Standard Gresley bogies, i.e. 8' 6". This process started in the 1920s, but did take some time. Unfortunately although the change is shown on the diagram in several different hands, no actual date is ever given.

So I think both would be possible circa 1930.

John

Thank you for that!

[2512silverfox]

I am not sure of the date of John Edgson's D183 drawing, but my drawing in HCD Vol 1 dates from 1974 and was used by Danny Pinnock as a basis for his kit and also as boxart. I have alsways tried to cover the varieties in my drawings, which is why the football saloon is shown on Spencer bogies.

Its possible that we both used the same GA as a basis, since we swapped info on a fairly regular basis!

Nick

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all
Having developed a sudden interest in LNER coaching stock, and found some long forgotten (and thought lost) Kirk kits, I have been researching coaching stock a little. It seems from here (mainly) and other sources that some Gresley suburban stock and articulated carriages were fitted with 8'0 bogies. One of the kits I've found is a Quad-Art articulated set, would this have been fitted with 8'0 bogies? The kit is supplied with 8'6 bogies, but a quest for making things as accurate as possible (from interfacing with all the expert modellers on this site), has led me to query the correctness of this.
Now to visit the Great Wen, how can people stand (and they do most of the journey) commuting everyday?
Earlswood nob

[JASd17]

I am not sure which series of the Quad-Art sets the Kirk kit is supposed to represent. There were detailed differences between the LNER builds (in panelling and bogie types), as well as the changes from the GNR to LNER series. The Isinglass drawings are not a bad place to start.

John