Kings Cross - Sheffield high speed service

[hq1hitchin]

Just reading the latest Gresley Observer and intrigued to see the May 1939 letter from Sir Ronald Matthews to Gresley regarding a suggestion (Sir Nigel's?) of a high speed service, via Retford, between the two cities. The chairman thinks it an excellent one, if it can be fitted in. He has discussed the matter with Chief General Manager Newton and thinks that there would be ample traffic for a streamliner as people are fed up with LMS unpunctuality. He also asks HNG (whom he addresses as Tim) what he has gathered regarding his visit to Paris to look at diesels.

[52D]

Silver Fox would be a shoe in for this proposed service with its connections to Samuel Fox.

[sandwhich]

This is interesting because it happened later in BR days when the Master Cutler diesel hauled (occasionaly steam)Pullman service via Retford to Kings Cross started in the summer of 1959. The first train up arrived at around 10 am returned to Sheffield at around 11 30 arrived back at around 5 pm and went back on its final trip to Sheffield at around 6 to 6 30. These trains only lasted until 1966 when they were withdrawn and the Master Cutler name transferred to a service out of St Pancras. I can also remember a short lived morning outward and late afternoon inward working to and from Kings Cross to Sheffield I believe it was 3 coaches detached and attached to a Leeds train at Retford. I think they quietly gave that up after 2 years.
The traction used on the Cutler was interesting, it started off with the Class 40 then the 2000 hp Class 31 was used before that was given up and then went to the Class 37 and apart from the occasional use of DP2, Falcon and what was known as the White Lion these locos saw out the end of the service.

[JeffB]

Falcon was a regular on the train, out of the Cross at 11:20 and 19:20, and stabled at Tinsley ready for the next day, never saw Lion on it though. It was saved for the Leeds trains when it was usable. Did secondman on it once.

[65447]

This correspondence was a wonderful revelation when I first learned of it, but it is not the only addition to the high-speed story. There had already been a 1935 proposal for a high-speed service between Hull and Liverpool, via Doncaster and Sheffield, using 4-car trains with catering facilities. Presumably these would have provided a fast and superior form of transit between east and west coast ports, ideal for 1st class passengers travelling between the Continent and the USA.

[strang steel]

Falcon was a regular on the train, out of the Cross at 11:20 and 19:20, and stabled at Tinsley ready for the next day, never saw Lion on it though. It was saved for the Leeds trains when it was usable. Did secondman on it once.

There is a photo of Lion on the Pullman at Sheffield Victoria here,

http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.ph ... 2050019210

[JeffB]

Hi strang steel, I stand corrected. I cant ever remember seeing her on the Cutler. She seemed to spend more time in Clarence Yard (FP) waiting attention.

[strang steel]

No Jeff, I never saw Lion on the Pullman either - so that photo was quite a surprise to me as well. Apparently, it would be used as a stand in for Falcon if there were any problems with that particular locomotive.

[thesignalman]

This is interesting because it happened later in BR days when the Master Cutler diesel hauled (occasionaly steam)Pullman service via Retford to Kings Cross started in the summer of 1959.

To be technically correct, The Master Cutler started in 1947, running to Marylebone up the GC until the date you mention.

John

[Boris]

When The Master Cutler first started it was a Darnall Milage job with one of our new B1s of which I was one of the cleaners on the ones due out next day having just started there in March.

Two crews each day but 4 in a week because they did alternate days on The Master Cutler and Sheff' Vic station pilots