Any ideas as to the date of this picture?

[strang steel]

Are the shadows relatively short, though?

The sun in midsummer is just above 60 deg above the horizon in these latitudes, but looking at the telegraph pole between 190s dome and chimney (which is the only tall item where the base is properly visible), it would seem as though the projected shadow is almost as long as the post is tall, which would imply an angle of 45 deg.

Therefore the scene maybe midday around September or March/April, or late afternoon in summer. The spring can most likely be discounted because trees in the background appear to be in leaf.

However, I do not know the orientation of the photo - which would help with the time of year given the position of the sun. Are the tracks in the photo running SE-NW, or some other direction?

[Hatfield Shed]

The sun's pretty high, really need the time of day from a map orientation to judge just how high it will be at Midday. The telegraph pole between chimney and bunker is cropped off by the top of the picture frame, you can see its truncated top just above the shed gable end, there's no cross pieces or insulators visible, yet these are clearly on view in the shadow. Look at the twin doll signal slightly right of that pole, you can see the base and thus the full height of the signal, and note how short that shadow is. Same for where the loco buffer falls. My guess at a date is within a few weeks either side of midsummer day...

[Autocar Publicity]

I'm not familiar enough with York to comment on the orientation of the photo, but I'm sure someone will recognise the scene and be able to say.

I've done another crop and enlarge of the loco buffer beam. See what you think:

[Bryan]

At that location the tracks are running from SW to NE
The loco and coach are heading SW

[strang steel]

The sun's pretty high, really need the time of day from a map orientation to judge just how high it will be at Midday. The telegraph pole between chimney and bunker is cropped off by the top of the picture frame, you can see its truncated top just above the shed gable end, there's no cross pieces or insulators visible, yet these are clearly on view in the shadow. Look at the twin doll signal slightly right of that pole, you can see the base and thus the full height of the signal, and note how short that shadow is. Same for where the loco buffer falls. My guess at a date is within a few weeks either side of midsummer day...

Yes, I see what you mean. I wrongly assumed that the cross bars and insulators were obscured by the steam, sorry.

Another trip to the opticians is in order, I think.

[WOOTANG]

the 2P is 724 NOT 726 if that helps in anyway

[Hatfield Shed]

Still a 3P 4-4-0, but now one of the class that didn't make it into BR's hands. Since they began to be scrapped from 1925, if someone has the withdrawal date it might just fall somewhere useful...

[69999]

This photograph appears as Fig 153 in the RCTS Locomotives of the LNER Part 1.
Unfortunately no date is given. The list of illustrations credits Fig 153 to H Gordon Tidey. F Moore’s Railway Photographs and Real Photographs used H G Tidey photographs in their lists and I also have several of his photographs marked ‘Distributed by Lens of Sutton’.
Roger Carpenter of Birmingham, a familiar figure selling railway postcards at exhibitions is a member of a Group who preserved the Lens of Sutton collections. I have his address if it would be helpful. If so pm me.

DG
69999

[WOOTANG]

im off to the NRM today so ill try and find a date from there

[JASd17]

Best guess for time of day would be mid afternoon. I suggest May-August.

But this does not help with the year. The Midland 4-4-0 is equally a dead end, all the likely numbers are withdrawn from 1936 onwards, allocation information still to be dug out, but without being absolutely sure of the number even that is speculative.

The NER Class was originally '190'. I am not sure what the white mark on the buffer beam states.

John

[Autocar Publicity]

I'm going to guess summer 1932. I think there are better odds on this than 1931, but if anyone has better evidence, do say.

Thankyou to everyone for your help and information.

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Aerolite seems to be motor fitted. Is this a clue?

[52D]

Ay up BB perhaps the motor fitting was when she was used on officers specials.

[JASd17]

Ay up!

Aerolite seems to be motor fitted. Is this a clue?

'Aerolite' is the only example of Class X1.

No. 190 was not motor-fitted, but did have dual brakes, i.e. Westinghouse, with Vacuum added later c 1930, that accounts for the two pipes above the buffer beam, and the one below is for steam heating, interesting that the pipe is still attached if it is the summer. Perhaps the officers liked being comfortable.

The top of the Westinghouse pump is just visible near the tank filler, it was just in front of the tank on the LHS.

John

[Bryan]

Ay up!

Aerolite seems to be motor fitted. Is this a clue?

'Aerolite' is the only example of Class X1.

No. 190 was not motor-fitted, but did have dual brakes, i.e. Westinghouse, with Vacuum added later c 1930, that accounts for the two pipes above the buffer beam, and the one below is for steam heating, interesting that the pipe is still attached if it is the summer. Perhaps the officers liked being comfortable.

The top of the Westinghouse pump is just visible near the tank filler, it was just in front of the tank on the LHS.

John

Maybe the reason for the heating still being attached is that the weather was a bit like this months.
Snow in May. Stoke this week.