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The LNER Encyclopedia
Discussion and reference site for the London North Eastern Railway
Folks, after a break I am back and have lots of questions.....
In the 1950s there was a Welwyn-Colwick evening goods train that according to the ROs I have gone through sometimes proivided a York B16. According to Divman in the BR forum his recollection was that this was a B1 turn from KX, but others thought it was a Colwick lodging turn with a K3.
Either way does anybody recall B16s on this turn, running through Grantham to Colwick. I wondered whether the engine changed at New England or Grantham, but the WTT shows it as passing through Grantham (as most Colwick workings did). B16s were around in the late 50s, so maybe readers of this thread may recall?
I also dug up an instance of a Black Five that was allocated to KX during the ATC trials working on an overnight London-York freight. I will add the details later.
Anyway, many more questions and observations to add!
My first thoughts would be, how many Colwick engine crew would be familiar with B16s and/or how many B16 drivers would be passed for the Colwick - Grantham line?
Did Colwick see many B16s? I know they were regulars at Annesley but that was for GC fast goods workings. I may be wrong, but I would have thought Annesley to Colwick trip workings were worked by local engines.
There was no such thing as 'drivers knowledge' for steam engines. York B16's were daily visitors to Colwick yard off turns from the NE region and would, no doubt, be used for out and home turns after being stopped for repair or otherwise becoming unbalanced.
AndyRush wrote:There was no such thing as 'drivers knowledge' for steam engines. York B16's were daily visitors to Colwick yard off turns from the NE region and would, no doubt, be used for out and home turns after being stopped for repair or otherwise becoming unbalanced.
Andy
That would confirm then that the engines worked throughout from Welwyn to Colwick then made their way back to York from there.
I will try and dig up the examples from the ROs later.
I agree with Andy Rush re.drivers could drive any steam engines.The route is what drivers had to know,and sign for,of course. As for Colwick men on a lodge turn;well i did'nt realise that.I thought New England would be about their limit,but may well be wrong of course.
Roy.
Not regular booked turns, but B16s worked up to KX on excursion and summer Saturday traffic. The usually reliable Mr Percival gives October 1962 as the last time this happened.
I often saw B16's on Neasden Shed when I was a lad (in the 50's) I believe they worked in on a York to Marylebone Parcels train.
Ah! before anyone comments thats the 1950's.
Another question about loco types; 2 in this post.
The Shed-by-Shed books shows that three 3F 0-6-0 Jintys (one was 47300) were shedded at 35B between May 1956 and I think June 1957. I assume these were used solely to perform shunting of wagons and ecs around Grantham; but does anybody know whether they went further afield than the local environs of Grantham station?
I have seen, and have a shot somewhere, of J11s at Grantham. I know some of these were sheded at Newark at some point; but where would these have come from? I dont have access to my books at present, but could they have come from Boston/Lincoln on freight or parcels?
I have found another photo of a steam hauled Nottingham - Grantham service. It is dated 1960, so a little late for 1950s reference but by not too much.
However, it shows an L1 at Radcliffe on Trent with a Grantham bound train, of which the first coach is what appears to me to be a Mk1 non corridor 6 compartment brake, followed by a Thompson non corridor lavatory composite with 2 first class and 4 second class compartments. This is all that is visible I'm afraid.
I think by the 1960s the stock used on these trains was probably Thompson's and Mk1s. In 1954/5 they still used Thompson twin-sets predominantly. I am trying to find out when the Twins were replaced either with Thompson Surburban or Mk1 stock.
If anybody knows when the twins were removed from these workings I would love to know.
Come on chaps, I know they were boring compared with the pacifics, but they did throw up a variety of engine....
If folks could still try and think about my Twins question, I would appreciate it...
In a sort of related matter (well its to do with coaching stock); further investigation of Carriage Working notices highlights the issue of attaching and detaching coaches to sets at Grantham. I know that early morning and late evening passenger trains, as well as parcels traffic, had various moves. Has anybody any memories of these, and in particlular how the locos on the Derby services were used to help these moves on these trains.
I assuem any tank engines on these services were not turned, but that B1s and the like would have been. Did these engines access the shed from the South or run round the train using the goods lines to the West of the station then enter the shed form the North?
One last question, is that the CWs refer to VANFITs; were these standard 4-wheel fitted Vans used within services for parcels and goods? Did the long wheel base LNER CCTs ever get used on these services? I have seen some pictures of them at Peterborough North but can't recollect any oin photos at Grantham, or on trains.
As ever any memories or knowledge about these matters always appreciated.
I wonder if the confusion arises because of the delay in completion of carriage building programmes due to wartime restrictions?
Articulated diagrams 304, 310 and 312 were not completed until between 1941 and 1943 but were part of the 1939 and 1940 CBPs if I am interpreting the tables in Harris correctly.
The building dates of these vehicles may give the incorrect impression that they were Thompson stock.
