Changes Kings Cross to Wood Green since 1963

[manna]

G'Day Gents

This is taking the time frame back a bit, but it shows some of the old signals around Wood Green and part of the crossover, south of the station.

manna

[Dave Cockle]

Excellent period photos Manna.

In the top photo, looking towards the station, interesting to note that the point rodding from No 4 signalbox ran between the Up and Down Fast lines! Must have made life for the S&T dept a bit hair-raising when oiling up.

[Mickey]

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[silverfox]

some great OS maps in the GNR book published recently, will try and get them on here

[StevieG]

...Around the same spot, but the semaphore/diesel era equivalents of the same signals I'm afraid....

In the first photo, I suspect that the Up Branch (Enfield/Hertford line; 3 x twin co-acting arms), and Up Slow (3 suspended arms) home signals' structures are modifications of the GN formations in manna's B&W photo.

In the second; ECS from Bounds Green going Up Branch-Up Fast (perhaps needed in King's Cross a.s.a.p.); what looks like a Brush 2 / Class 31-hauled 'Parly' (semi-fast) on Down Fast; a Cravens DMU 'Local' on No.1 Slow; and "Electrification" mess coaches (of what design/origin? - I think the far one was a Gresley, but the nearer one, IIRC, seemed a little bulkier - ex-GW perhaps) over in the down loading dock, at least one of which ended up marooned there by track re-modelling, and was eventually 'craned' out.
(Left background) Hornsey C.S. looks pretty full : Don't recall the purpose of the collection of static tanks round the north end of the Coronation Shed.
Note at the right-hand end of the barrow crossing, the 3 x staff indicators apparently linked in to the block instrument circuits, and indicating "Cross with care" (normal), 'Train Accepted' ('Line Clear' given), and 'Train Approaching' ('Train On Line').

[Mickey]

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[manna]

G'Day Gents

There was some wonderful signals around Wood Green, the Hertford branch signals even though they had co-acting arms were always difficult to see, good job we always came through there slowly.

Couple of points in the other picture to, the ECS train has been let out onto the mainline, very rare in daylight hours, unless it's a diverted express (doubtful), the goods dock is longer than I remember, would it be this big because of the racecourse being only 200 yards away and that was the best place to unload the horseboxes ??? more interesting Nth London traffic. I cannot remember it ever being used for that traffic, even though the racecourse didn't close to the early 70's. And how many people know about the old outdoor swimming pool at the end of the dock! I would say that closed in the early 20's as it looked like a pond in the 60's, but you could still see the white tiles in places.

Looking across to the sand yard, noticed there's a lot of oil tankers in there ! don't remember a oil depot there ??

manna

[StevieG]

" .... the ECS train has been let out onto the mainline, very rare in daylight hours, unless it's a diverted express (doubtful), .... manna "

I forgot to mention that my two Wood Green photos were taken in 1968/9 period, and it was most probably a Saturday.

Around this same time, some main-line sets seemed quite a hotch-potch of maroon and blue/grey liveries.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Even on Sundays were bobbies reluctant, to put ECS out on the main line, I think it was a case of a clear run or not, can you imagine having a 12 or 15 minute wait at Holloway !.......bobbies nightmare.

manna

[strang steel]

I know appearances are deceptive and my eyesight is far from perfect, but if you look just above the Brush 2, in the distance there appears to be the rear of another train which is possibly occupying the slow line.

Maybe this is the reason that the one in the foreground is being turned onto the main?

[Mickey]

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[StevieG]

As told to me in the early 1970s by Dave Tilbury a relief-signalman who mainly worked around the London area in the 1960s & 70s it was preferable for local passenger trains and some ECS workings going into Kings Cross to be run up the 'fast line' as far as Belle Isle so as to gain easier access to platform nos.5-10 or the west side suburban platforms either being 'turned out' at Wood Green up box no.4, Finsbury Park no.4 or Holloway south up s/boxes. .... "

...or, in the '60s part of the period quoted, also possible, though perhaps less likely to happen, at Harringay 'Passenger' ("...West Station") or Holloway North Up (with the platform numbers then being 6-8, 10-15 [for which trains had to be on the Up Fast leaving Holl.Sth. Up] ),

" .... Conversely some up express workings heading into Kings Cross were better off being 'turned in' at Finsbury Park no.6 or Holloway south up s/boxes if they were arriving in platform nos.1-4.

( .... platforms 1, 2, 4, 5, respectively, though these could be run straight up the Fast all the way if it was clear).

[Mickey]

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[thesignalman]

As told to me in the early 1970s by Dave Tilbury a relief-signalman who mainly worked around the London area in the 1960s & 70s it was preferable for local passenger trains and some ECS workings going into Kings Cross to be run up the 'fast line' as far as Belle Isle so as to gain easier access to platform nos.5-10 or the west side suburban platforms either being 'turned out' at Wood Green up box no.4, Finsbury Park no.4 or Holloway south up s/boxes.

Conversely some up express workings heading into Kings Cross were better off being 'turned in' at Finsbury Park no.6 or Holloway south up s/boxes if the were arriving in platform nos.1-4.

That is totally logical but not actually practical.

Every ECS to Kings Cross (not the Moorgates) had to have permission from the Regulator in Kings Cross box, to ensure platform availability. This was achieved by communication between the telegraph boys at Holloway South Up and Kings Cross (both jobs I have done). There was no communication from Kings Cross to boxes as far as Wood Green so the means of achieving that with ECS would involve some complicated telephone work. Otherwise, if the Regulator said no, you would end up with the Up Main blocked.

Likewise, South Up always asked Kings Cross for permission to send any express via the Up Slow ("Arrival Side") so the act of turning one in Slow Line at an earlier point could prove worthless and cause unnecessary delay.

In the days of loco haulage when an engine would be left on the stops after a departure, you couldn't simply work to the platforming arrangements as that could cause total chaos.

I would have thought the photograph most likely depicts a Sunday diverted express off the Hertford loop but I may be wrong.

John

[Mickey]

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