Changes Kings Cross to Wood Green since 1963

[silverfox]

Steve,

Thanks for confirming what i had to go back nearly 50yrs for. Was there not another line Eastside that ran from the carriage sidings complex through the station area and then join the up Hertford just south of the station. Likewise ISTR hat there was a similar arrangement with a 'relief' line to the west of the 'Kyher pass' line that joined it again just south of he sation. It was here,i think, that the picture of the 5 trains heading north was taken, Dn Main, Dn Hatfield, Dn Hertford, Khyber pass and this relief line i think it was done alongside the filter beds. Must find those old articles. Wasted a lot of learning time from Trinity Grammar by sitting around here!

Ron

[Mickey]

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[StevieG]

Steve,

Thanks for confirming what i had to go back nearly 50yrs for. Was there not another line Eastside that ran from the carriage sidings complex through the station area and then join the up Hertford just south of the station. Likewise ISTR hat there was a similar arrangement with a 'relief' line to the west of the 'Kyher pass' line that joined it again just south of he sation. It was here,i think, that the picture of the 5 trains heading north was taken, Dn Main, Dn Hatfield, Dn Hertford, Khyber pass and this relief line i think it was done alongside the filter beds. Must find those old articles. Wasted a lot of learning time from Trinity Grammar by sitting around here!

Ron

Ron,
I had only described running lines, and I'm wondering if, in some cases, your 'relief' etc. lines were just sidings.

I'll have a go at some complete descriptions (not all point connections/crossovers mentioned):
On the Up side, from roughly the north end of the 'Coronation Shed' southwards, east to west, there were :
Nos. 2 & 1 Receptions (commenced here, partly a continuation from the sand sidings, with an access crossover* from the Up Carriage, and led into Hornsey Carriage Sidings); then
Up Carriage,
Up Goods,
Up Slow,
Up Fast.

North of here to No.4 Box, it was just :
Sand yard,
Up Carriage,
Up Goods,
Up Slow,
Up Fast.

At No.4, the Up Branch officially ended at its trailing crossover into the Up Slow, but visually on the ground could have been thought to continue southwards, but its continuation was actually then the Up Goods.
Meanwhile the parallel Up Goods through the station in effect moved one to the right by converging with the continuation of track from the Up Branch, with the Goods's 'straight'-er track going forward actually being the start of the Up Carriage line.

From No.4, back through the station to No.2 box's points, there were :
The easternmost outlet line from Bounds Green Carr.Sdgs, ending in a buffer stop roughly opposite the north end of the Plats.1-4 buildings, but with points into the Up Goods,
Up Goods (commenced at No.2, as a continuation of the westernmost of BG Carr. sidings),
Up Branch (P.1),
Up Slow (P.2 & 3),
Up Fast (P.4).

In the area at, and a short way north of, No.2 box, it was :
Many sidings of Bounds Green Carriage and shed,
Up Branch,
two through sidings, I think confusingly called Nos. 1 & 2 Spurs (not necessarily in that order: Near the flyover they split into about five: Something like three going round and up, parallel with the Up Branch, to Bounds Green box, one dead end?; and one straight under the flyover beside the Up Slow - think this split into two - they're visible in some of those Wood Green photos; By the late '60s one peeled off into Rowntree's distrib'n depot, in the 'fork' of these sidings and the Down Branch line's embankment)
Up Slow,
Up Fast.


Meanwhile on the Down side ; leading from the Hornsey direction, beside the filter beds and as far as No.1 box, again east to west, it was :
Down Fast,
Down Slow No.1,
Down Slow No.2,
Down Goods,
Waterworks Carr. Sidings (Two roads? maybe 3? : ended at No.1 box, trailing into the Down Goods)

North of No.1, there were two sidings on the east side of the Down Goods; the westernmost one running all the way along the loading dock.: Again, there was a trailing connection from them into the Down Goods near the south end of the station.

Through the station (before the bankslip), just the four running lines as described last time, to No.3 box.

From a short way north of the road overbridge, to 'Tunnel box' :
Down Fast,
Down Slow,
carriage sidings (two? or more?), converging to one before passing under the flyover, then trailing into the right-hand side of the DG at Tunnel box,
Down Branch - looping NW, north, then NE as it climbed to pass over the flyover,
Down Goods, to and through the 'Khyber Pass' between the flyover ramp and the higher ground on the west side,
At Tunnel box, one or two (more?) gated sidings peeling back off the west side of the DG (for 'brick' traffic in some way?).

I think that's it! Hope that explains your secondary recollections.

Wood Green once boasted long 'through' (some say 'ladder') crossovers at both ends.
* - The south end example of these (which I think was removed in the late '50s/1960?) stretched from this Up Carriage to Reception No.1 crossover, NW-wards across all lines, with trailing single slips in each one, as far as the Down Goods (in GN days it even connected into both sidings by the loading dock), giving direct connection between 10 roads + 1 (GN, 12 + 1), operated by various releases in No.4 box and points/signals pulled by the man in No.1 box: No wonder No.1's levers 1-26 were all spare in later days.

The north end 'through crossover was a more modest affair (released by No.2 and operated by No.3), connecting only (but in similar fashion to the southern one) from the Up Slow across into the two sidings beside the Down Slow from there to Tunnel box, and glimpses of it can be seen in some of the linked-to 1962 photos.

[StevieG]

Talking about Wood Green i always thought that the signal gantry at Wood Green up box no.2 always looked a bit 'top heavy' and had to be steaded with a fair number of guy cables.

The up slow line home signal always looked to me as those it was 'hanging wrong' when it was showing off as well. .... "

.... Yes, it always looked very wide as well as tall. And also the Up Fast home (3) was always notably droopy when 'On' in the late '60s.

" .... The original G.N.R. lattice post signal gantry at Wood Green up box no.2 was replaced around the time of the great world. .... "

... the time of the great world. (what?) - (War? ; utopia?)

" .... Also on the 'lever badges' (or tablets) in Wood Green up box no.2 referred to the up Hertford branch as THE UP ENFIELD LINE (or BRANCH?) i seem to recall. .... "

Yes; can't recall fine details from memory, but "Branch"s and "Enfield"s could both be found around Wood Green, while Langley was I think, almost all "Branch"s, except for at least one "Cuffley" there as well; presumably a long-standing throw-back from when the line north of Cuffley was first opened to Langley, but only as a 'goods' single line (to assist 'Great War' traffic movements perhaps - Wonder if the connection from Bowes Park [Bounds Green box] through the back of Bounds Green sidings to Palace Gates yard for onward travel via Seven Sisters/S.Tottenham/Temple Mills/Stratford was available by that time?)
At the intermediate 'Hertford loop' boxes of course, their lines were always 'Down Main' and 'Up Main' in the local sense.
I don't think "Hertford" was in any linename before needing to be when the '70s resignalling came in.

[robertcwp]

Some photos of the line in 1972-4 are in this set on my Flickr site:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 337999931/

[StevieG]

Some photos of the line in 1972-4 are in this set on my Flickr site:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 337999931/

Wonderful set there Robert. Many of the views I could wish I'd stopped to capture when the chances were there (including the station vistas and old signalling), rather than getting wrapped up in operating it !
Then suddenly, the opportunities had gone.

Good to have captured Hornsey station before it was completely changed.
And you certainly caught the Harringay area in transition from old to new.
Very many thanks for drawing attention to them.

[robertcwp]

Some photos of the line in 1972-4 are in this set on my Flickr site:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 337999931/

Wonderful set there Robert. Many of the views I could wish I'd stopped to capture when the chances were there (including the station vistas and old signalling), rather than getting wrapped up in operating it !
Then suddenly, the opportunities had gone.

Good to have captured Hornsey station before it was completely changed.
And you certainly caught the Harringay area in transition from old to new.
Very many thanks for drawing attention to them.

Thanks - I didn't take them myself - they are images I have collected (ie original slides with copyright). There are a few other images showing the line in the early 1970s, including:

HST 1973: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 3648710190
A Deltic approaching Wood Green (not a very good negative): http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 4072007852
And a few King's Cross images:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 4127842858
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 127842858/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 127842858/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 3653307095
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 653307095/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 653307095/ and the next few after this one.

[StevieG]

Well then, sincere thanks to the photographers, and many thanks to you for collecting them and setting them up to be viewable.

More very good 'uns there Robert.
Seeing Ganwick photos amongst your collection made me think : There are now probably far more viewer/reader/writers of the LNER Encyclopedia forums (and other railway websites of similar ilk which may deal with GN/LNER/BR(E) lines) who know where Ganwick is (and probably to some extent, other locations like Cemetery, Greenwood, Hawkshead, Redhall, Wymondley, Three Counties, Langford, etc.), than amongst those who now work on/for the line.

[Mickey]

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[gordons19]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but there is a plan of Wood Green plus the Hertford loop approaches in the Hertford Loop book from Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith. I just loved the pic of the Khyber Pass. I just wish I could incorporate such a feature into my layout.

[Mickey]

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[sandwhich]

Just to let you know that there is a DVD available called Kings Cross Suburban made in 1971 part of it shows the Kings Cross to Wood Green area before the big changes of the 1970s. Very interesting.

[Mickey]

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[sandwhich]

Yes Mickey remember the closure of the old box and the transfer of the "old layout" to the new box, if i remember right the gradual resignalling that took place from 1971-76 was controlled locally from boxes like Hertford North before transfer to the new panel in the new box with the clearing of the Kings Cross throat as it was called the final resignalling. I also remember the old box standing disused but someone was still employed for quite sometime afterwards to clean the windows, really nice fellow who was also somewhat bemused by the task that was given to him.

[Mickey]

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