Gresley coach formations

[paullad1984]

Does anyone know what formations would of been used for the following trains, using only gresley coaches.
North east-blackpool trains of the late 1950's.
Peterborough-London semi-fasts

[Hatfield Shed]

Peterborough-London semi-fasts, late 1950s, only Gresley coaches in the train? Practically zero probability of seeing such a formation. Gresley, Thompson and BR mk1 stock was mixed near indiscriminately as far as a lineside observer could tell. The one all Gresley formation to be reliably seen were the Quadart sets used on inner sub services, obtained by their indivisible nature.

[strang steel]

Similarly, with Blackpool services and excursions. I doubt that all Gresley rakes were seen, especially later in the decade when Mk1s were being produced in quantity.

The weekend trains, or evening illuminations specials, would utilise any spare stock from the carriage sidings and could be a mixture of almost anything.

I recommend watching the B&R video volume 49, L&Y Memories Part 3. This covers the Blackpool area and by running the sequences on slow motion, one can get an idea of the make up of many services that is not possible from the majority of still photos.

[paullad1984]

with regards the blackpool train formations most of thr photos i have dated 1955-57 show gresley coaches only, in a mix of b&c and maroon.

[strang steel]

With respect, I very much doubt they show a mix of crimson/cream and maroon if the dates of the photos are as you state, mainly because maroon was only introduced in 1956 and it took a while for older rolling stock to be painted.

[paullad1984]

sorry, my mistake, 1956,57,58,59 starting off with B&C and gradually more maroon appearing, mk1's dont seem to figure until 59, before that mainly appears to be gresleys, maybe with the odd thompson.
Reason i asked is i recently got some fantastic gresley coaches for MSTS and wish to put together a prototypical train using them, and them alone.

[robertcwp]

Summer 1956: 9. 4 am (SO) Newcastle-Blackpool Centra via Tebay was BSK(5), CK(2-4 1/2), 5 SK(8), BSK(5). Numbers in brackets are number of compartments. The CK had 2 first and 4 1/2 second. This was highly likely to have been Gresley stock as the carriage workings identified Mark I separately (Mark I SK also having 8 compartments) and post-war stock did not have the correct number of compartments.

Be careful of photos showing Gresley stock in the 1950s. Maroon and varnished (but worn and dirty) teak can be hard to distinguish unless you can see the lining. So, photos that apparently show a mix of maroon and crimson/cream might actually show a mix of teak and crimson/cream. Photo dates tend to be unreliable too.

[paullad1984]

thanks robert!

[workev]

Summer 1956: 9. 4 am (SO) Newcastle-Blackpool Centra via Tebay was BSK(5), CK(2-4 1/2), 5 SK(8), BSK(5). Numbers in brackets are number of compartments. The CK had 2 first and 4 1/2 second. This was highly likely to have been Gresley stock as the carriage workings identified Mark I separately (Mark I SK also having 8 compartments) and post-war stock did not have the correct number of compartments.

Be careful of photos showing Gresley stock in the 1950s. Maroon and varnished (but worn and dirty) teak can be hard to distinguish unless you can see the lining. So, photos that apparently show a mix of maroon and crimson/cream might actually show a mix of teak and crimson/cream. Photo dates tend to be unreliable too.

Robert, would the teak finish coaches still have their LNER numbers on them, or would they have BR numbers overlaid?

Ian

[robertcwp]

Summer 1956: 9. 4 am (SO) Newcastle-Blackpool Centra via Tebay was BSK(5), CK(2-4 1/2), 5 SK(8), BSK(5). Numbers in brackets are number of compartments. The CK had 2 first and 4 1/2 second. This was highly likely to have been Gresley stock as the carriage workings identified Mark I separately (Mark I SK also having 8 compartments) and post-war stock did not have the correct number of compartments.

Be careful of photos showing Gresley stock in the 1950s. Maroon and varnished (but worn and dirty) teak can be hard to distinguish unless you can see the lining. So, photos that apparently show a mix of maroon and crimson/cream might actually show a mix of teak and crimson/cream. Photo dates tend to be unreliable too.

Robert, would the teak finish coaches still have their LNER numbers on them, or would they have BR numbers overlaid?

Ian

I have not seen many photos but those that I have show either E added in LNER lettering or BR Gill Sans E added to beginning and end of number otherwise still in LNER style.

[Green Nigel]

It rather depends how long the retained their teak livery into the BR period. Film I have of Gresley teak carriages in the early to mid fifties shows the numbering and positioning to be standard with the BR liveried examples in the same formation.

[workev]

It rather depends how long the retained their teak livery into the BR period. Film I have of Gresley teak carriages in the early to mid fifties shows the numbering and positioning to be standard with the BR liveried examples in the same formation.

Sorry I might be a bit thick today; does that mean that they had their BR numbers applied as per the Crimson/Cream liveried coaches in BR fonts; no evidence of the LNER numbers?

Ian

[Green Nigel]

Yes.