So what shall we name the new P2?

[Wildebeest]

I like the suggestion by vcltel of The Gallant 51st as my Grandfather's brother, a member of the Black Watch, died in northern France on 13 June 1940 - almost two weeks after the Dunkirk evacuation ended as the 51st carried on figting a gallant rearguard action.

[S.A.C. Martin]

I will say again "Malcolm Crawley".

I'll second that.

[2002EarlMarischal]

Agreed, a very worthy choice, but not I would suggest, a name that will stir the public imagination. Let's just hope that the study results are positive, and that we will indeed see a P2 in all its glory.

[60800]

'Malcolm Crawley' would look very nice on a P2's nameplate

[S.A.C. Martin]

Agreed, a very worthy choice, but not I would suggest, a name that will stir the public imagination.

True in terms of marketing, perhaps. But it would be a beautiful gesture that tells its own story and stirs the soul of anyone who hears it.

Let's just hope that the study results are positive, and that we will indeed see a P2 in all its glory.

Absolutely with you on that sir.

[Atlantic 3279]

I quite agree that Malcolm Crawley was a very nice chap. I'd overheard him mentioning his illness to a friend whilst doing his loco-building demo at Wakefield late last November. I'm amazed that he was able to attend given that he was, as we now know, so close to the end of the line.

Assuming that the P2 design package does pass the "will it ruin our track" (computer-modelled?) test, I will be fascinated to learn of the added flexibility measures that have been designed into the vehicle. Putting any form of sideplay on the leading coupled wheels, as has often been advocated (by means of a Krauss-Helmholz arrangement or similar) is presumably difficult when that axle has to carry the drive-crank from the middle cylinder

Correction added 23.16hrs, 2nd March: Please overlook my stupid remark here about the middle cylinder driving onto the leading axle - I've obviously spent too much time lately modelling Thompson machines I'll try to comment in future only when my brain is switched on! I know that Gresley three cylinder locos (save for the B17s) all drive onto the second axle, hence the minimum 6' 6" between the first two coupled axles and at least 1 in 8 inclination of middle cylinder. Shall I go and shoot myself now to avoid disgrace?

[61962]

Really sorry to hear about Malcolm. I'd wondered why he'd resigned from the chair of the Gresley Society. he will be missed I'm sure.

Atlantic 3279,

In common with all of Sir Nigel's three cylinder locomotives (D49s & B17s excepted of course) the P2's cylinders all drove the second axle. Gresley was very much against the crank axle leading into curved railway as he considered that it was sufficiently stressed without having to guide the locomotive also, and divided drive was not favoured anyway. The Krauss-Helmholtz arrangement may have been considered, but I think that may also have transferred some of the guiding forces to the crank axle.

Regards

Eddie

[60800]

I expect the same cartazzi arrangement (self centering) as Tornado will be taken into account, as well as the other modern modifications.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Really sorry to hear about Malcolm. I'd wondered why he'd resigned from the chair of the Gresley Society. he will be missed I'm sure.

Atlantic 3279,

In common with all of Sir Nigel's three cylinder locomotives (D49s & B17s excepted of course) the P2's cylinders all drove the second axle. Gresley was very much against the crank axle leading into curved railway as he considered that it was sufficiently stressed without having to guide the locomotive also, and divided drive was not favoured anyway. The Krauss-Helmholtz arrangement may have been considered, but I think that may also have transferred some of the guiding forces to the crank axle.

That's very interesting - would a Peppercorn A1/Thompson Pacific arrangement of driving the front axle via Walschaerts be unwise then, bearing in mind the DP2LT is going for outside Walschaerts and the A1 Trust is considering British Caprotti gear?

[Atlantic 3279]

Please see my inserted correction (above) to my original stupid remarks!

[S.A.C. Martin]

Please see my inserted correction (above) to my original stupid remarks!

Not that stupid - when you've been concentrating on a specific subject, it sometimes muddies the waters. We've all done it. I won't mention regulators for a while I suspect in open conversation

I think the intention of the A1 Trust was to design and fit a form of divided drive in the same manner as that on Tornado, for a new P2. In what way it would differ or be unique to the P2, I simply don't know. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Deltarail report comes back.

[60800]

May be a bit stupid considering the 9F's are banned from mainline operation, but how about a set of flangless centre or rear drivers?

[paullad1984]

But dont 8F's also have a set of flangless drivers, yet i seem to remember one chugging around the network?

[S.A.C. Martin]

But dont 8F's also have a set of flangless drivers, yet i seem to remember one chugging around the network?

No, the 8Fs definitely have all flanged drivers.

[Bill Bedford]

Assuming that the P2 design package does pass the "will it ruin our track" (computer-modelled?) test, I will be fascinated to learn of the added flexibility measures that have been designed into the vehicle.

They probably won't need to anything about adding flexibility. Just substitute a LMS type sprung pony truck for the Gresley swing link one (as was done on the V2s after the war) an most of the wear problems will be sorted