Changes Kings Cross to Wood Green since 1963

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

As the Alderman of Bradford once said on the steps of Victoria Hall in Saltaire: The Little Man Must Learn That He Cannot Stand In The Way Of Pro-Gress. This was after announcing that the "Victorian Slum" that is now a World Heritage Site was to be demolished to make way for a by-pass for Shipley.

No one remembers the Alderman's name. Old Saltairians remember that a chap known to all as Red Clive shouted an insult and took a swing at the Alderman. Oh, and that David Hockney stopped the blow from landing.

Not all progress is for the better.

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents

Also gone, Down Main, Copenhagen Tunnel through to KX, including Gasworks Tunnel
Down Slow, Copenhagen Tunnel through to KX, including Gasworks Tunnel
York Road platforms
All of the Widen Lines to Moorgate.
Platforms 14,15, and 16. and Hotel curve.
Some really nice footbridges?
Ohh....and about 26 !! signalboxes and at least 500 signals including all those wonderful signal posts

manna

Generally so true manna !
But pardon me if I say your first two items have lost me, unless your 'Downs' really mean 'Ups'!

Through Gasworks and Copenhagen, the '75(?)-'77 remodelling resulted in both of their eastern bores being rendered trackless (used to have the Up Slow and Up Fast ('Main').

Copenhagen's centre bore now carries the Up & Down Fast lines (used to be the Down Fast ('Main') & Down Slow, while the western bore has the Up & Down Slow lines (used to be the Up & Down Goods).

Gasworks's centre bore now carries the two-way No.2 & No.1 Fast lines (commonly referred to as 'A' and 'B' Routes after the relevant routeing indications on signals - [Nothing to do with the west side of the station 'throat's Routes 'A' to 'E' of the steam age] ): (This bore used to carry the Up Relief and Down Main No.1 (the 'Main's here were redesignated 'Fast' in their last few years).
While the western bore has the bi-directional No.2 & No.1 Slow lines ('C' and 'D' Routes) : used to be the Down Main (Fast) No.2 & Down Slow lines.

Regarding the general Belle Isle area between the two tunnels, I won't even try to describe a 'Then and now' comparison of what is with what was; - too complicated.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Having one of them mornings, got a mile up the road on my way to work before I realized it was ...Sunday !!!

Sorry everyone I meant the old 'UP' lines, that one day could become a 'Busway' if the faceless men have there way, 'KILL' Fang.........

manna

[giner]

Thank you Manna for the additional info as regards lost sidings, some of it I had totally forgotten about. Micky has a point everything looks so good and shiny when its brand new but it did not take long for deteriation to set in, as regards the foliage i remember Western sidings being cleared after a number of years and the joke at the time was that they found a cravens 2 car unit with a grizzled old driver very annoyed because he was not given right away. But when some more foliage was being removed the local council objected because it may contain some rare plants. Sometimes you just cant win!
The extra platforms at Finsbury park and Alexandra Palace are interesting as it is a case of what goes around comes around.
Can anybody remember the remnants of the construction of a new underground station outside Finsbury Park Station that was going to be part of the underground northern heights scheme abandoned in 1940 and never resumed. It was into the 70s before this was finally pulled down and the bridges that were going to used kept in Hitchin stockyard until the same time before being disposed of.

Had a bit of a chuckle when I read that bit. Rare plants growing where once was what would now probably be regarded as a disastrously polluted area.

Anyway, I'm intrigued by the Finsbury Park underground station that was planned. You may have seen this website before, but there's a section dedicated to this area.
http://underground-history.co.uk/northernh.php

[giner]

Regarding those ideas about the Digswell bottleneck. Please wait till I'm dead and gone before any of that is put into action.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[sandwhich]

As regards the Holloway Motorail terminal also known as the cattle dock, it was used as the latter as late as 1963 when the nearby slaughterhouse was closed. By then most of the live cattle came in by road but I do remember shunting some cattle wagons not long before closure.
Come on giner & mickey dont be so gloomy about the so called Digswell bottleneck, whether four tracks will happen is anybodys guess but if it does it can only be progress. The trouble these days with the railway system being used more than ever is that it is going to have to be expanded and some of the original victorian structures are going to be altered in some way and quite rightly must not be replaced by some ugly monstrosity. The gloomy days of mass closures and weird ideas of railways into busways which badly damaged morale are well behind us and we should move on with positive ideas. There is only one way and that is forward.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[giner]

Micky said: "I use to stand in the old car park at Welwyn north station just passed the old s/box after school back in 1968/69/70 and watch the 'evening peak' between 4:30-6:30pm on a week day evening just watching train after train passing northwards through the station one after another."

Been there, done that, Micky. What a spot for spotting!

_____________________________________________________________________________________

You're right of course Sandwich, progress happens. Just not always for the better. Yes, something will eventually have to be done with the bottleneck, but when you have lovely memories of a place and time, it's hard to see any changes being made. It's the raison d'etre behind this website in many ways, you've only to look at all the talented modellers in here and how they all concentrate their efforts in the pre-1965 era.

At least the Victorians built with a sense of aesthetic that is almost totally lacking in today's architecture. That stretch of the ECML between the south end of the viaduct and Woolmer Green, short as it is, is the most scenic between London and York. I just hate the idea of it being bludgeoned into some sort of eyesore for future generations. That's said with the realisation, of course, that what now exists was very likely greeted with much scorn by previous generations but, as the Beatles once sang, "obladi, oblada, life goes on, braaaa, la la how the life goes on."

Cheers, Giner

[Mickey]

Deleted

[hq1hitchin]

Micky said: "I use to stand in the old car park at Welwyn north station just passed the old s/box after school back in 1968/69/70 and watch the 'evening peak' between 4:30-6:30pm on a week day evening just watching train after train passing northwards through the station one after another."

Been there, done that, Micky. What a spot for spotting!.

I couldn't have said it better giner you've took the words right out of my mouth!.

Happy days indeed.

Like sandwhich and Hatfield Shed have said theres probably a good case for 4-roads across Digswell viaduct but hopefully not for a few more decades.

My first ever day at work, Sept 12th 1966, at Welwyn North. Had my sandwiches at midday in the porters room and then thought I'd better stretch my legs so walked across the viaduct and then back again. It was a weekday but nobody said a word. Would give me sleepless nights now just thinking about having to do it!

[Mickey]

Deleted

[StevieG]

" .... so walked across the viaduct and then back again. It was a weekday but nobody said a word. Would give me sleepless nights now just thinking about having to do it! "

Some of those legitimately needing to do such these days might also have a sleepless night or two, before or after needing to be out on such a viaduct, worrying whether they did (or will) remember and satisfy all the pre-planning requirements, formulated a sufficient and permitted SSoW (Safe System of Work) filled in the correct forms(s) without leaving out any details, and implemented any stipulated protection measures completely, including where required, carrying out the correct communications (all recorded) with the signaller.

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents
Mac Fisheries, sidings at Finsbury Park. manna

I presume that was that short siding on the down side of the station that use to have a Pullman coach stabled in it for several years back in the 1970s?.

Correct !

[StevieG]

Mickey says that he does not want to see a flyover at Hitchin and that it may be overplayed by some people. Well things have changed over the years, there are now six main line trains per hour in each direction at Hitchin plus the two FCC trains to Peterborough in each direction and there are also five trains per hour in each direction on the Cambridge Line and there could be more when Thameslink services start to run, plus there are now a lot more peak hour services than there was 20 or so years ago. Overplayed I dont think so.

A quick glance through the current a.m. peak list of Up trains through Woolmer Green indicates a maximum throughput of 18 trains in what looks like the busiest 60 minutes - or on average, one every 3.33 minutes.