Returning to Grantham

[workev]

Slightly off-topic, but very relevant... Does anybody know whether Colin Walker is still alive (he must be in his 80s); and/or who owns the copyright to his photographs?

Colin managed to capture some images of rare workings (Brit Parcels, O1 coal working), as well as everyday Grantham. I have some of his books, but not all captions have dates!

Any help would be gratefully received!

Ian

[61070]

Sadly Colin Walker died in 2005. There was an exhibition, Steam Twilight, of some of his work at Locomotion in 2006 which, I am glad to say, I was able to see - particularly as I had attended, with my father, a preview of Colin's first exhibition, Tribute to Steam, at Leicester's New Walk Museum in the late 1960s or early 1970s. I still have the catalogue, listing some 145 pictures

The following link relates to the Locomotion show and gives a summary of his life:
http://www.shildon.org/240_-_17th_February_2006.pdf
The photo was taken at Leicester Belgrave Road (GN) station.

I believe that Colin's son now has the copyright and manages the collection, but I don't know how he may be contacted. Perhaps Locomotion, or the NRM, will know?

[workev]

Ok, so some questions folks....

My first is about trains to Tyne Commission Quay. I assume these ran when sailings left Newcastle, but what was it? (or were they?) I assume they weren't for any old sailing to Norway, or were they? I can only assume as well that these workings were V2/A3 workings, but does anybody know for sure?

Secondly, the trains betwen Grantham and Derby/Nottingham/Boston would I presume use the smaller engines at Grantham and other sheds (L1s and B1s have been noted in the late 50s, did the A5s work these at all?

Were the DMUs that ran in the mid-fities onwards Class 114s, or did others get used? I assuem these were Lincoln units? I have seen pictures of Class 101s; did class 105s or Derby Lightweights ever get used?

In the Winter 56/57 timetable there are close departures of local trains to Lincoln and the Nottingham line, as well as interaction with the mainline. Which platfor did Lincoln, Boston, skegness trains leave from?

Thats all for now, but any views, answers or comments welcome!

Ian

[workev]

Sadly Colin Walker died in 2005. There was an exhibition, Steam Twilight, of some of his work at Locomotion in 2006 which, I am glad to say, I was able to see - particularly as I had attended, with my father, a preview of Colin's first exhibition, Tribute to Steam, at Leicester's New Walk Museum in the late 1960s or early 1970s. I still I have the catalogue, listing some 145 pictures

The following link relates to the Locomotion show and gives a summary of his life:
http://www.shildon.org/240_-_17th_February_2006.pdf
The photo was taken at Leicester Belgrave Road (GN) station.

I believe that Colin's son now has the copyright and manages the collection, but I don't know how he may be contacted. Perhaps Locomotion, or the NRM, will know?

I will try and email the folks at the NRM in Shildon to see if they have a contact for his son. I realised he would be at least in his late 70s. a prolific photographer who seems to have had a great rapport with railway mean given his requests for smoke on departure from Grantham!

Ian

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

In the main Lincoln, Boston, Skegness trains left from platform 1, although they did occassionally use other platforms.
Class 105's were used on the Skeggy service at times.
Regards.

[61070]

I believe that Colin's son now has the copyright and manages the collection...

Colin's son's name is Martin - ref. Steam World No.227 (May 2006) page 28.

[strang steel]

Ok, so some questions folks....

My first is about trains to Tyne Commission Quay. I assume these ran when sailings left Newcastle, but what was it? (or were they?) I assume they weren't for any old sailing to Norway, or were they? I can only assume as well that these workings were V2/A3 workings, but does anybody know for sure?

Secondly, the trains betwen Grantham and Derby/Nottingham/Boston would I presume use the smaller engines at Grantham and other sheds (L1s and B1s have been noted in the late 50s, did the A5s work these at all?

Were the DMUs that ran in the mid-fities onwards Class 114s, or did others get used? I assuem these were Lincoln units? I have seen pictures of Class 101s; did class 105s or Derby Lightweights ever get used?

In the Winter 56/57 timetable there are close departures of local trains to Lincoln and the Nottingham line, as well as interaction with the mainline. Which platfor did Lincoln, Boston, skegness trains leave from?

Thats all for now, but any views, answers or comments welcome!

Ian

The original dmus were Derby Lightweights, but I dont have the numbers off the top of my head; I would need to look at periodicals of the time for that and the time that they were ousted by the 114s.

However, the 114s (apart from two) were delivered to Lincoln with the original 150hp engines, but these were found to be inadequate for keeping time when the units were towing a van. They were quickly re-engined with ones of 230hp . What I dont know is whether there was a transition when both classes could be seen together at the same, although they would not work together on the same train as they had different control systems.

The 105s were from the same batch that worked the Kings Cross suburban services, and there were a few at Lincoln. I dont remember too many at first in the 1960s but they seemed to become more regular from about 1964.

I dont know what the 1957 WTT says about services to Skegness, but my memory suggests there were not that many in the 1960s. Most of the trains from Grantham terminated at Boston, except in the Summer months when weekend trains were extended.

I remember trains from Sleaford arriving at platform 1, but also occasionally crossing the main line and ending up in the bay between the down main and the Nottingham platform (was the bay platform 4?). I suppose it may have depended on how the main line traffic was at the time of arrival, because a train for Boston or Lincoln from platform 1 would still have to cross the up main on departure.

I never saw a 101 on a local train in the 1960's or early 70's, but they may have become regular after those dates. Basically it was just a never ending diet of 114s. The 101s did appear on seaside excursions from the Midlands, but those would have avoided Grantham and taken the Allington - Barkston East line. I do have a note in one book to say E50035 was paired with E59542 but it is crossed out in different ink, so I imagine it was a very temporary affair in 1966.

On Summer Sundays during the early 1960s there was a lunchtime Grantham to Skegness all stations stopper which was usually a Flying Pig and some non vestibule stock, as I travelled on this a few times with my parents for an afternoon on the beach. I am sorry but I dont have more details of that working except it returned early evening and I think it was cheap half day fares to travel on it.

I wish that I had lived by the line in the late 1950s and could have seen the services during the steam/diesel transition which was very early compared to many lines.

[workev]

I believe that Colin's son now has the copyright and manages the collection...

Colin's son's name is Martin - ref. Steam World No.227 (May 2006) page 28.

That wouldn't be Martin Walker of 55022 Royal Scots Grey fame would it (or is that just a coincidence)?

Ian

[strang steel]

I have discovered that the class 114s were delivered to Lincoln at the rate of about 1.5 units a week between September 1956 and May 1957. This means that the Derby Lightweights had very little time to monopolise the services, but details seem to be scarce.

However, due to the lack of power mentioned above, some were temporarily formed into 3-car units with two power cars and one trailer (I remember giving the formations earlier in the thread, but have no idea which page it is on - sorry). Twelve spare trailer cars were stored at various locations in Lincolnshire.

In February 1957 E50031/2/3/4 and E56031/2/3/4 were transferred to Stratford. This seems to have been a swap to try them out on other services, because at the same time E79034/63/69/72/75 and E79250/79/85/88/91 were sent to Lincoln, but the reasons are just my conjecture, I have found no written proof.

The lightweights were not at 40A for long, as during March 1957 most moved to Norwich, but the Stratford 114s were joined by E50029/E56029 in April, and E79034/E79250 moved to Gorton in May 1957.

The 114s at Stratford made their way back to Lincoln between and October 1957.

[52D]

Ok, so some questions folks....

My first is about trains to Tyne Commission Quay. I assume these ran when sailings left Newcastle, but what was it? (or were they?) I assume they weren't for any old sailing to Norway, or were they? I can only assume as well that these workings were V2/A3 workings, but does anybody know for sure?

Secondly, the trains betwen Grantham and Derby/Nottingham/Boston would I presume use the smaller engines at Grantham and other sheds (L1s and B1s have been noted in the late 50s, did the A5s work these at all?

Were the DMUs that ran in the mid-fities onwards Class 114s, or did others get used? I assuem these were Lincoln units? I have seen pictures of Class 101s; did class 105s or Derby Lightweights ever get used?

In the Winter 56/57 timetable there are close departures of local trains to Lincoln and the Nottingham line, as well as interaction with the mainline. Which platfor did Lincoln, Boston, skegness trains leave from?

Thats all for now, but any views, answers or comments welcome!

Ian

The original dmus were Derby Lightweights, but I dont have the numbers off the top of my head; I would need to look at periodicals of the time for that and the time that they were ousted by the 114s.

However, the 114s (apart from two) were delivered to Lincoln with the original 150hp engines, but these were found to be inadequate for keeping time when the units were towing a van. They were quickly re-engined with ones of 230hp . What I dont know is whether there was a transition when both classes could be seen together at the same, although they would not work together on the same train as they had different control systems.

The 105s were from the same batch that worked the Kings Cross suburban services, and there were a few at Lincoln. I dont remember too many at first in the 1960s but they seemed to become more regular from about 1964.

I dont know what the 1957 WTT says about services to Skegness, but my memory suggests there were not that many in the 1960s. Most of the trains from Grantham terminated at Boston, except in the Summer months when weekend trains were extended.

I remember trains from Sleaford arriving at platform 1, but also occasionally crossing the main line and ending up in the bay between the down main and the Nottingham platform (was the bay platform 4?). I suppose it may have depended on how the main line traffic was at the time of arrival, because a train for Boston or Lincoln from platform 1 would still have to cross the up main on departure.

I never saw a 101 on a local train in the 1960's or early 70's, but they may have become regular after those dates. Basically it was just a never ending diet of 114s. The 101s did appear on seaside excursions from the Midlands, but those would have avoided Grantham and taken the Allington - Barkston East line. I do have a note in one book to say E50035 was paired with E59542 but it is crossed out in different ink, so I imagine it was a very temporary affair in 1966.

On Summer Sundays during the early 1960s there was a lunchtime Grantham to Skegness all stations stopper which was usually a Flying Pig and some non vestibule stock, as I travelled on this a few times with my parents for an afternoon on the beach. I am sorry but I dont have more details of that working except it returned early evening and I think it was cheap half day fares to travel on it.

I wish that I had lived by the line in the late 1950s and could have seen the services during the steam/diesel transition which was very early compared to many lines.

52A will give you chapter and verse on TCC workings usually V3 hauled to Central where a Pacific would be waiting.

[Andy W]

The only odd DMUs that I used to see on summer staurdays in the 1970's at Grantham were cl.120 Cross Country units. Most of these by-passed Grantham and went direct to Skeg but I do remember seeing one or two at Grantham, but that was over a whole decade! I can't remember seeing any Met-Cams going east in that period at all - just Cravens and the Derby heavys.

The only odd DMU working I travelled on was from P'Boro to Boston in about 1963/4. A Norwich lightweight took us (my mum, baby sister and me) on a very rough trip to Boston - Lincoln must have been short at the time. I always remember that journey - while waiting at P'boro a "spaceship" on an up coal train stopped just outside the station and then opened up just before the overall roof. We all got the full benefit and on arrival at Boston, it was straight into the bathroom!

So, if you are modelling the 1960's Lincolnshire scene, it just might, with the emphasis on might, be possible to squeeze in a "loaned" lightweight into a sea of Cl.114 and some Cravens!!

[52A]

Ok, so some questions folks....

My first is about trains to Tyne Commission Quay. I assume these ran when sailings left Newcastle, but what was it? (or were they?) I assume they weren't for any old sailing to Norway, or were they? I can only assume as well that these workings were V2/A3 workings, but does anybody know for sure?


Ian

The TCQ trains ran to/from Newcastle and through to London (The Norseman) in connection with the sailings to/from Norway. They were usually V3s to/from Newcastle and engines changed to something more suitable for the onward journey. After diesels arrived they were worked by most types of main line loco, even Deltics on occasions. The service was withdrawn in 1970 and buses took over until the eventual withdrawal of the Norway sailings, although there are still DFDS services to Amsterdam. Slightly off topic but the trains did run through Grantham!

[40A]

Hi Ian,

The Grantham- Lincoln and Grantham - Boston services were among the earliest to be handed over to DMU's. I can remember travelling from Lincoln as early as 1955 and being excited about being able to see the view ahead through the driver's windows. I think the fact that Grantham's B12's were all transferred away in January 1957 is significant, as they had hauled a lot of those workings. I'm not saying no steam on these workings after 1956/7 but not very much. The 114's did all seem to arrive pretty quickly, and worked most of the local trains round the County. The Oakwood Press book The Lincoln to Grantham line via Honington has a record of the cyclical DMU duties in 1955/6, and shows four units, pretty intensively worked, and covering all the lines from Lincoln to Grantham Boston and Skegness. Certainly my memories og Grantham from 1956 on are of DMU's on all the local trains except the Nottingham/Derby services, which were steam hauled most of the time.

The KX- Tyne Commision Quay trains were hauled by all varieties of Pacific, but did sometimes bring a rare Gateshead engine. Again, memory stubbornly tells me that I saw mainly A1's on them, for what that is worth all these years on.

[workev]

Hi Ian,

The Grantham- Lincoln and Grantham - Boston services were among the earliest to be handed over to DMU's. I can remember travelling from Lincoln as early as 1955 and being excited about being able to see the view ahead through the driver's windows. I think the fact that Grantham's B12's were all transferred away in January 1957 is significant, as they had hauled a lot of those workings. I'm not saying no steam on these workings after 1956/7 but not very much. The 114's did all seem to arrive pretty quickly, and worked most of the local trains round the County. The Oakwood Press book The Lincoln to Grantham line via Honington has a record of the cyclical DMU duties in 1955/6, and shows four units, pretty intensively worked, and covering all the lines from Lincoln to Grantham Boston and Skegness. Certainly my memories og Grantham from 1956 on are of DMU's on all the local trains except the Nottingham/Derby services, which were steam hauled most of the time.

The KX- Tyne Commision Quay trains were hauled by all varieties of Pacific, but did sometimes bring a rare Gateshead engine. Again, memory stubbornly tells me that I saw mainly A1's on them, for what that is worth all these years on.

thanks for the view on the DMUs...

It looks like I am narrowing down my modelling period to 1957 (no later than August), as after that the shed was reduced to an F shed from a B. Unfortunately for me this reduces virtually to 0 the number of diesels (Deltics); but from the perspective of loco changes and variety offers the best operation.

Having the DMUs at this time does allow me to run the odd lightweight, but I must now find a source for Class 114s!

It's dawned on me that the only home paciifics after this time at 34F were A3s, all others being visitors from other sheds.

More notes later on this. I migh tjust have to run two eras, but will need to win the lottery first!

Ian

[workev]

The run down of steam at Grantham started in April 1957, when the shed lost a number of A1s and A3s to Kings Cross, but gained 4 A4s.

Apparently this was to improve performance and reliability of services worked by Top Shed, and also was the begining of the work associated with the fitting of Kylchap exhausts to the A3s.

Does anybody have any idea as to which services these A4s were placed on whilst at Grantham? They were there until the start of the Winter 57/58 timetable when the services were overhauled to have smaller formations, but more workings.

Ian